Staredit Network > Forums > Null > Topic: Kame Mafia: "Kame Classic" Edition II
Kame Mafia: "Kame Classic" Edition II
Jul 15 2013, 6:19 pm
By: Fire_Kame
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Jul 27 2013, 5:53 am O)FaRTy1billion[MM] Post #21

👻 👾 👽 💪

I'll play.



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Jul 27 2013, 6:13 am Fire_Kame Post #22

wth is starcraft

Ray, in my last game I sent the mafia their own individual role PMs as well as one fake role PM written in the same style as the ones received by the townspeople. This allowed them to either use that PM straight out once if in a tight spot, or else they had to come up with one that'd fake out the town if that one was used by another member of mafia. You can see all role PMs from the last game here (or if the link doesn't load correctly, it is post 277; one of the collapsible boxes). I believe in the last game one of the mafia members panicked and used the provided role PM almost immediately after the game started, so while the mafia had it, the other three had to either forge or manipulate their way out of the PM.


I intend to do this same thing for this game, so consider this notice for the town. :P

In fact, the way those role PMs are written and the way the new ones will be written will be with different words (and a different scenario), but will most likely share a similar voice. I feel that while I don't have a "distinct" writing style, I have written so much on SEN that if someone wanted to do some hardcore analysis on whether or not a PM is forged they have enough of my writing samples to determine this.


Also, I am adding Raitaki and Farty.




Jul 27 2013, 6:18 am Aristocrat Post #23



in



None.

Jul 27 2013, 6:28 am Fire_Kame Post #24

wth is starcraft

Added Aristocrat.

To further illustrate what I mean by the majority of the mafia vote for who to kill, I added this to the OP:

Quote
**To clarify what I mean by majority, here are some scenarios:
3 Mafia Vote for Sac, 1 Abstains: Sac Dies
2 Mafia Vote for Sac, 1 Votes for Azrael, 1 Abstains: Sac Dies
1 Mafia Votes for Sac, 1 Votes for Azrael, 1 Votes for Demon, 1 Votes for Aristocrat: First vote into me dies.**

As such, infighting and failure to work together on the mafia's fault will destroy their chances of winning. However, if Mafia chooses a spokesperson and it is clearly agreed upon by all members of mafia (last time, one contacted me, and I contacted all of the mafia saying "this person is spokesperson, correct?" and they all responded with yes), I will always go with what the spokesperson wants.





Jul 27 2013, 8:07 am Sacrieur Post #25

Still Napping

Fine. I'm in~



None.

Jul 27 2013, 8:09 am Fire_Kame Post #26

wth is starcraft

YAY!

Sacrieur has been added!

Ideally I hope for 15 contestants, but if that doesn't happen I believe that the game will still be pretty balanced at 12-14 with 3 mafia, 7(+) town, 1 nurse and 1 detective. I would really prefer 15 players, though.




Jul 28 2013, 4:58 am Fire_Kame Post #27

wth is starcraft

Alright, after some conversation and a flimsy promise that Azrael and Roy would join, I am seriously considering the following amendment:

No nurse role, detective is invincible, no reveal during the game.

But...I will only initiate this if the majority of players want it to be so.

In this case, no vote is the same as saying you do not want a change.




Jul 28 2013, 5:51 am lil-Inferno Post #28

Just here for the pie

I vote yes.




Jul 28 2013, 6:03 am Aristocrat Post #29



Quote from Fire_Kame
Alright, after some conversation and a flimsy promise that Azrael and Roy would join, I am seriously considering the following amendment:

No nurse role, detective is invincible, no reveal during the game.

It makes the game much less luck-based but also uninteresting to play since nobody knows what happened. Instead, I recommend giving mafia a collective power as follows:

Forge Documentation: In preparation for unexpected outcomes, the mafia leaves a false paper trail in the home of one of their members in to hide their tracks. If said member is lynched on the next day, he will show up as a Townsperson.

This will substitute for "no reveal". I have no objections to other changes.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 28 2013, 6:14 am by Aristocrat.



None.

Jul 28 2013, 7:02 am Fire_Kame Post #30

wth is starcraft

No, that isn't going to happen. The only reason the change above is being suggested is because I could reasonably see that happening in the version of mafia that I grew up on. Remember, this is based on an IRL mafia game, where mafia/detective/nurse only point during their turns at night while everyone else has their eyes closed. Something such as forge documentation would not be reasonably useable without heavily modifying the irl mafia game; therefore not staying true to this formula...so no. No forge documents.


Personally I would rather have roles revealed as the game progresses, but I think no reveal is intended to balance the game.




Jul 28 2013, 2:07 pm Sacrieur Post #31

Still Napping

I'm going to attempt to play this game without looking at the OP.

I also vote for the thing Az said to do.

I also vote Az for lynch.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 28 2013, 2:56 pm by Sacrieur.



None.

Jul 28 2013, 3:20 pm Dem0n Post #32

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Haven't people shown their distaste for no reveals in previous mafia? I thought the general consensus was that not many people liked it.




Jul 28 2013, 3:22 pm Azrael Post #33



No, it hasn't been much of an issue. The games where we've had problems were because of role reveal, not because of no role reveal. It will be even more of a non-issue when the Town has a Detective, who can confirm people's alignment without fail. It's not like there isn't a way to confirm who is who here.

The amount of strategic depth in this setup is considerable. To just scratch the surface, in the words of Roy:

Quote from Roy
The Detective should not be able to prove his role; that would ruin the purpose of the system.

The idea behind it is that the Detective has no obvious way of using his ability to its max potential, so the strategy becomes more interesting than just claiming outright or never claiming at all. So far the best approach I've theorized is having the Detective build a network of trusted townies around him, and by analyzing the found mafia to the rest of the players would help find the whole team. This in turn makes the Mafia have to play it safer than they normally would for a no-reveal game, because they may be watched by a Detective (and potentially other townies recruited by the Detective). The goal of the Mafia would then be to turn the town against the Detective, all while not being sure exactly who the Detective is. Once the Mafia find the Detective, they are placed at an advantage because they can manipulate the town into turning their backs on the Detective. If they find the Detective by failing to kill on a given night, it would be more advantageous for the Detective than if they found out by word-of-mouth, as the former gives the Detective plausible deniability when accusations start coming his way.

Essentially, it becomes a power struggle between the Mafia and the Detective. Being a townie becomes more important as well, because the Detective can't really do anything in the beginning of the game, so it's up to the other townies to hold the fort and avoid the Mafia's manipulation during the lynch cycles. All information building up to the point where the Detective has significant influence can then be used by the town to try to sort out the Mafia, depending on how sloppy the Mafia played up to that point.





Jul 28 2013, 3:25 pm Positively Post #34



I vote for the thing Az said to do also :devlin:



None.

Jul 28 2013, 3:49 pm Raitaki Post #35



Hmmm...Sure, let's give this a shot :kame:



None.

Jul 28 2013, 4:32 pm Aristocrat Post #36



Quote from Fire_Kame
Something such as forge documentation would not be reasonably useable without heavily modifying the irl mafia game;

Night cycle: Point to mafia and make O sign with hand. Then point to townsperson and make an X with both hands.

This is intended to provide a medium for "balanced role reveal" which rewards strategic foresight from mafia and still gives the town "something" to look forward to. If you're a townsperson in a no-reveal game and you aren't in a large PM group, you gain absolutely no information for the entire duration of the game, which is unfun for said participants.



None.

Jul 28 2013, 5:10 pm Sacrieur Post #37

Still Napping

Quote from Dem0n
Haven't people shown their distaste for no reveals in previous mafia? I thought the general consensus was that not many people liked it.

I change my vote for lynch to Dem0n.



None.

Jul 28 2013, 5:32 pm Roy Post #38

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Fire_Kame
Alright, after some conversation and a flimsy promise that Azrael and Roy would join, I am seriously considering the following amendment:

No nurse role, detective is invincible, no reveal during the game.

But...I will only initiate this if the majority of players want it to be so.
I never made a flimsy promise to play.

I'll play. I also vote for the thing Azrael said to do.

Quote from Aristocrat
Forge Documentation: In preparation for unexpected outcomes, the mafia leaves a false paper trail in the home of one of their members in to hide their tracks. If said member is lynched on the next day, he will show up as a Townsperson.
If you want to do this, you'll need to give the mafia a larger team, because it would almost require they sacrifice one or two of their members to try to fool the town into believing one of them is the Detective. I don't like the idea of forcing a sacrifice strategy on the mafia, though.




Jul 28 2013, 5:47 pm Azrael Post #39



I'll play, and I guess I vote for the thing Azrael said to do.

Quote from Aristocrat
If you're a townsperson in a no-reveal game and you aren't in a large PM group, you gain absolutely no information for the entire duration of the game, which is unfun for said participants.

That's BS, especially since the Detective gets role information. If he investigates you, I'm sure you'll be hearing from him. Otherwise, you can try to figure out who he is, or attempt to get him to contact you. Your options here are limitless, and your choices are critical. A regular Townie is far more important in this setup than the standard one.




Jul 28 2013, 5:48 pm Generalpie Post #40

Staredit Puckwork

I vote Az for lynch, first night death, and for his idea.



None.

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