Shit, I think Vrael's right. So I was right?

Also, I like how this simple math problem is sparking so much discussing.

Quote from Dem0nS1ayer

Shit, I think Vrael's right.

Nope.

Quote from Dem0nS1ayer

So I was right?

Nope.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations

That wiki article says that multiplication and division are equal, so based on that logic it can be 288 or 2.

Quote from Dem0nS1ayer

Shit, I think Vrael's right. So I was right?

Also, I like how this simple math problem is sparking so much discussing.

He's forgetting that multiplication and division occur at the same time, left to right, and is instead following the mnemonic, which says multiplication ALWAYS comes first. So he's right, until he gets 48/12 instead of 48/2.

EDIT:

Quote from DevliN

That wiki article says that multiplication and division are equal, so based on that logic it can be 288 or 2.

Multiplication is equal to the reciprocal of a division, is what it actually says. They even say that 4 * 1 / 4 = 4 * (the fraction 1/4), iirc. In any case, on that same page I find what I was looking for all along:

Quote

There is a new mnemonic featured in Danica McKellar's books Math Doesn't Suck^[2] and Kiss My Math^[3] that does address this very issue: "Pandas Eat: Mustard on Dumplings, and Apples with Spice." The intention being that Mustard and Dumplings is a "dinner course" and that Apples and Spice is a "dessert course." Then it becomes not a linear string of operations to do one after the other, but rather the "dinner course" operations are considered together and performed left to right

EDIT2: Even more gold.

Quote

These mnemonics may be misleading, especially if the user is not aware that multiplication and division are of equal precedence, as are addition and subtraction.

Quote from poison_us

EDIT:

Quote from DevliN

That wiki article says that multiplication and division are equal, so based on that logic it can be 288 or 2.

Multiplication is equal to the reciprocal of a division, is what it actually says. They even say that 4 * 1 / 4 = 4 * (the fraction 1/4), iirc. In any case, on that same page I find what I was looking for all along:

Quote

There is a new mnemonic featured in Danica McKellar's books Math Doesn't Suck^[2] and Kiss My Math^[3] that does address this very issue: "Pandas Eat: Mustard on Dumplings, and Apples with Spice." The intention being that Mustard and Dumplings is a "dinner course" and that Apples and Spice is a "dessert course." Then it becomes not a linear string of operations to do one after the other, but rather the "dinner course" operations are considered together and performed left to right

EDIT2: Even more gold.

Quote

These mnemonics may be misleading, especially if the user is not aware that multiplication and division are of equal precedence, as are addition and subtraction.

[/color]

That's why you don't use mnemonics at all!

Fuck whoever taught me math. If I'd answered 288 in my basic math courses in elementary school I would've gotten it wrong though, I'm 100% sure of that.

Poison, you're still not a math major though

I wonder why they don't just assign precedence to multiplication and division, it'd make things simpler. Left->Right should be the last operation in my opinion, but maybe that's just because that's how I was taught.

Edit: I think whoever invented coding was bad at basic math and we got unlucky and no one fixed his crap

Quote from Vrael

I wonder why they don't just assign precedence to multiplication and division, it'd make things simpler.

Multiplication [b]is['/b] division, so they are the same precedence. Otherwise, you'd get stuff like 24 / 4 * 0.25 != 24 / 4 / 4, which makes absolutely no sense.

Quote from HCM™Aristocrat

Quote from Vrael

I wonder why they don't just assign precedence to multiplication and division, it'd make things simpler.

Multiplication [b]is['/b] division

You mean division is multiplication.

Quote from HCM™Aristocrat

Multiplication is division

48 * 0.5 * (9 + 3)
48 * 0.5 * 12

24 * 12 = 288
OR
48 * 6 = 288

Tada.

Edit: Hell, even distributing.

48 * 0.5(9 + 3)
48 * (4.5 + 1.5)
48 * 6 = 288

I don't think you understand that I have just been notified after ~15 years of doing things easily in a certain way, that my way is wrong. 24 / 4 * .25 != 24 / 4 / 4 makes complete sense to me. It doesn't to you because you weren't taught that way.

Multiplication and division are related, however they are not the same operation. Division is a secondary operation we use for convenience of writing, but the actual field of real numbers is composed completely of just multiplication and addition. Division appears because the identity of the field gives us that for each element a in our field F, there exists an element a^-1 such that a*(a^-1) = 1; instead of writing *(a^-1), we just use /. Since we have "created" this third operation for our field, I see no reason why we shouldnt assign it a lower precedence, of course this is coming from someone who's been doing it that way for a long time.

Edit:
Actually after thinking about it, not assigning precedent between the two makes sense in coding since you can have them evaluated in sequential order and not have a separate phase for each one.

Quote from Vrael

I don't think you understand that I have just been notified after ~15 years of doing things easily in a certain way, that my way is wrong. 24 / 4 * .25 != 24 / 4 / 4 makes complete sense to me. It doesn't to you because you weren't taught that way.

Jokes aside, I actually feel the same way. I was convinced it was 2 until everyone decided to prove that wrong.

Yeah when I first saw the topic I was like "lol trollz, ima show em whats up, m' teachuz done me right brah, i got dis shit u kno?" Evaluate by PEMDAS, easy answer. So basically the conclusion here is, LOL THE REST OF THE WORLD IS RETARDED CAUSE MY WAY IS EASY.

288
and now I'm scared of knowing that another intelligent way of solving exists...

Quote from Vrael

but the actual field of real numbers is composed completely of just multiplication and addition.

I don't understand this and never have. Why just multiplication and addition? Where do exponents fit in to this? It is my understanding that multiplication is to addition as exponents are to multiplication ... i.e.: 4*3 = 4+4+4; 4^3 = 4*4*4. I would say addition is the simplest operation.

The saddest thing about this all... this debate is rivaling a discussion about god and evolution..

And I wonder why we cannot be a normal, functioning SC2 community

Edit: besides fuck you and your pemdas bullshit. It's clearly BODMAS. Brackets, order, division, multiplication, addition, subtraction.

What about...

48 * 1/2 * 1/(9+3)
24 * 1/12
= 2

Quote from O)FaRTy1billion

Quote from Vrael

but the actual field of real numbers is composed completely of just multiplication and addition.

I don't understand this and never have. Why just multiplication and addition?

How would you represent multiplying by a decimal value just using addition?

Quote from UnholyUrine

1/(9+3)

Huh? Where'd this come from? Why are you making a fraction from a multiplication operation? Correct this error and the answer is... 288.

Quote from Vrael

but the actual field of real numbers is composed completely of just multiplication and addition.

Please get to sqrt(2) with just a finite series of multiplications and additions.

[EDIT: I was responding to Roy's post >.>]
I don't know. D: My main concern is why don't exponents fit in to this. Do decimal exponents with just multiplication.
I'm just kinda oversimplifying going both ways, anyway...


My only way to do decimal multiplication is to simplify the decimals out ... but, of course, you can't represent that mathematically without multiplication itself.

Quote from O)FaRTy1billion

I don't know. D: My main concern is why don't exponents fit in to this. Do decimal exponents with just multiplication.
I'm just kinda oversimplifying going both ways, anyway...

That's a legitimate argument. Exponents should be included.