Staredit Network > Forums > Null > Topic: Simple Mafia: Game Over
Simple Mafia: Game Over
Oct 21 2012, 2:08 am
By: Roy
Pages: < 1 2 3 4 527 >
 
Polls

Oct 21 2012, 6:26 pm Bar Refaeli Post #41



Here are some bias selections of shoutbox arguments I believe would be beneficial to this thread:

http://www.staredit.net/?p=shoutbox&view=1832

I was never answered :(

http://www.staredit.net/?p=shoutbox&view=1833

This one is kinda long so I'll summarize it: Azrael arguing clues are unfair because they obviously point to the mafia. Aristocrat arguing that if anyone tried hard enough, they could connect clues to any player. Me arguing that the clues did not point to the mafia, as Kame was not lynched or the prime suspect, therefore invalidating Azrael's argument.

Now if anyone wants to respond to these bias selections of shoutbox conversations, please do, I welcome all others' insights into my failings to see the obvious.



None.

Oct 21 2012, 6:34 pm Azrael Post #42



I don't, because I responded to your biased, nonsensical, and irrelevant statements already, and you purposely removed those responses.




Oct 21 2012, 6:41 pm Bar Refaeli Post #43



http://www.staredit.net/?p=shoutbox&view=1834

Those were his only responses to the second one.

And he never responded to the first one.



None.

Oct 21 2012, 6:47 pm Azrael Post #44



Why do you keep leaving out all the facts?

This is why no one can take you seriously, Raccoon.




Oct 21 2012, 6:48 pm Bar Refaeli Post #45



I welcome the opportunity to improve myself through others pointing out my errors.

Feel free to quote something that supports your argument.



None.

Oct 21 2012, 6:55 pm poison_us Post #46

Back* from the grave

Quote from Roy
Quote from poison_us
What the hell is this revival on death bs?
What? There's no revivals. Reveal as in it will show what role you are when you die.
:facepalm:

Also, who reads the rules before the game starts? :bleh:





Oct 21 2012, 7:43 pm Vrael Post #47



Quote from Azrael
You apparently don't know that "simple mafia" is played everywhere else on the internet and in real life, and no one uses clues of any variety, and the quality of those games and players tend to be much higher than here, even on random obscure sites similar to this one.
I do happen to be aware of this, but I dispute your assertion that their games are automatically "higher quality" because they don't have clues.

Quote from Azrael
I already explained why this is, several times. There is no logic involved in clues.
By this same token, there is no logic involved in normal behavioral analysis. A player never has 100% definitive information regarding another players actions, unless their power gives it to them. Another player can always be lying when you think he's telling the truth, or vice versa. By symmetry to your argument, Azrael: You say "I think X is guilty" and other people say "Yeah I think X is guilty too" and your only recourse is to say "I'm not guilty." The only difference between this and clues, is that in the case of clues the source of ambiguity is the interpretation and the analytic material is the clues, whereas without clues the source of the ambiguity is the other players and their lying skills, and the analytic material is the actions of the [power role] players. Bad clues are similarly analogous to posting screenshots or verifying legitimate copies of a Role PM; these are destructive to the game in exactly the same way a bad clue is, and are not allowed for this reason. Unfortunately the "goodness" of the clues is dependent upon the skill of the host, and cannot simply be "not allowed" like role verification.

Quote from Azrael
No one can add or contribute anything to this [a clue interpretation], since it's an interpretation of something the host did
I can disprove this by direct counterexample: Suppose a clue interpretation as directed at player X. Detective Y, who investigated player X the previous night can add "No that clue can't refer to this person, I followed him the previous night and he neither visited anyone nor was visited by anyone."

Quote from Azrael
Every effect that clues have on gameplay is either negative or neutral.
We have already pointed out some positive effects. I agree that if the clues are obvious or too easy, or contain no ambiguity whatsoever it does detract from the game in a negative way, but the existence of good clues can add a dimension to the number of behaviors we can analyze, as well as giving normal townies another way to participate without having an explicit power role. Clues can be balanced into the game just like any other power role; an extra mafia hitman can be added to account for their presence or something. It's like giving the town a collective power, and just like any other power (BDS hitting a townie for instance) it can be used both to help and harm the town.

You are of course entitled to prefer games without clues; I just hope to help you see why there are those of us who do find clues fair and fun. And of course to voice my support of clues for this game of mafia.



None.

Oct 21 2012, 7:47 pm Fire_Kame Post #48

wth is starcraft

Quote from name:Raccoon
Quote from Fire_Kame
I swear to god whoever the doctor is better save lotus first.
Weren't you the one who killed him first last game...?
You all let me kill him. You didn't even care.




Oct 21 2012, 9:14 pm TiKels Post #49



No banned list?

I mean if I'm unbanned I'll sign up, otherwise I don't really have a choice.

Edit: herp derp missed the banned list

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 21 2012, 9:28 pm by TiKels.



"If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

-NudeRaider

Oct 21 2012, 11:51 pm Raitaki Post #50



Hmmm, since it's Roy, I guess I'd consider signing up. However, I don't wanna deal with all the :Coonangst: last game so I'll only sign up for realz if there b no clues :awesome:



None.

Oct 21 2012, 11:53 pm Lanthanide Post #51



Quote from Azrael
And in a game with clues, the Mafia will just quote a random line from the host and purposely misinterpret it, instead of having to give a valid reason.
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for the behavioural analysis you're so in love with. If a particular player keeps posting crap analyses that end with townies being hanged, what should the other townspeople do?



None.

Oct 21 2012, 11:59 pm Raitaki Post #52



Lant, how many times have you seen SEN listen to someone's clue interpretations after their previous ones killed a townie? :awesome: And no don't say that town might believe the dead person's role was changed, this is classic mafia we're talking about ;o



None.

Oct 22 2012, 12:14 am Observer12425 Post #53



In



None.

Oct 22 2012, 12:27 am DevliN Post #54

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

Quote from Raitaki
Lant, how many times have you seen SEN listen to someone's clue interpretations after their previous ones killed a townie? :awesome: And no don't say that town might believe the dead person's role was changed, this is classic mafia we're talking about ;o
Multiple times. Almost every game we've played actually.



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Oct 22 2012, 12:35 am Azrael Post #55



Lanth: "There are ways to reduce the severity of the negative impact that clues have on the game, therefore it's okay."

Clearly you caught my meaning perfectly, and replied in a rational and unbiased way. Well done.




Oct 22 2012, 12:42 am Leon-037 Post #56



Sign me up.



None.

Oct 22 2012, 1:02 am Roy Post #57

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Since we're approaching my expected game capacity, I'm going to shorten the sign-up deadline to Wednesday, Oct 24th, 11:59PM unless there is an issue for any player that has already signed-up regarding this. Please note that there will not be sign-ups allowed after this point (i.e., you cannot sign up during the activity check process).

Also, the poll for clues will be removed by tomorrow evening (no specific time). From the players that are participating in this game, the tally is 11-6 favoring clues (11-7 including my vote). Since there is a considerable dispute over this, my current resolution is that there will be a more limited number of clues, all of which will be at a high difficulty of interpretation. This won't be official until the poll is removed.




Oct 22 2012, 2:17 am Wing Zero Post #58

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

Quote from Azrael
The only arguments which a player should be able to make for lynching someone are those directly resulting from other players.

Problem with that is it becomes a popularity contest, and I always lose those.




Oct 22 2012, 3:00 am Fire_Kame Post #59

wth is starcraft

I didn't see...is it okay to change sig/title/avatar during the game, or is that dependent on the use of clues?




Oct 22 2012, 3:11 am DevliN Post #60

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

Typically you can't change your signature or avatar while the game is going, but I'm going to assume none of Roy's incredibly difficult clues will have to deal with your avatar or signature. :P



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

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