Staredit Network > Forums > Null > Topic: poison_us' Clueless Mafia
poison_us' Clueless Mafia
Dec 27 2012, 1:29 pm
By: poison_us
Pages: < 1 6 7 8 9 10 >
 

Jan 10 2013, 4:53 am Azrael Post #141



How about switching to Daddywhoo so we can end the day already.

We only need two more votes.




Jan 10 2013, 4:56 am Wing Zero Post #142

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

K I vote Daddywho




Jan 10 2013, 5:06 am Roy Post #143

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

I vote Daddywhoo.

Edit:
Just noticed this


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 10 2013, 5:50 am by Roy.




Jan 10 2013, 7:14 am Daddywhoo Post #144



Objection?
Quote from Azrael
Quote from Azrael
I finally got a PM from the Vigilante. One of the Mafia will die tonight, assuming they aren't the Godfather.
Quote from poison_us
Dem0n

As promised.

The next of the Mafia is Daddywhoo, who has been "reading or composing a private message" every two minutes whenever Demon is doing the same thing, and only during those times. They always stop doing this at the same time as well, because they've been in constant secret communication.

He's also one of the only people to not post or claim a role, despite being fairly active on the forum, because he's trying to lay low.

I vote for Daddywhoo.

So let me get this straight. Azrael's calling me out as a mafia based on two facts: that I was communicating with Dem0n and that I didn't post or claim a role.
First of all, yeah I was communicating for Dem0n, except for hardly as much as he's implying. I had maybe 5/6 messages with him, most if not all on the first Night of the game. Yes he contacted me. Yes I replied. In case you haven't noticed, I'm not particularly active on SEN so I was pretty eager to have an alliance at least on the first day, particularly cause he claimed Doctor to me and I was considering starting my own hub, not unlike the one that you claim to have right now. Unfortunately, in case the sleuthing you claim to have done didn't let you realize this, I haven't exactly been online that much. Literally twice since the start of the game, this time being the third. So I'm not sure where your claim of me being "fairly active on the forum" comes from, since this is the only thread I've posted in.
I would love to be melodramatic and say go ahead and lynch me, but don't do that because I'm not a fucking mafia, and Azrael's "proof" is terrible conjecture with no backing whatsoever.
Moreover, I'd like to ask people who are actually in the hub with Azrael to say something, cause right now it looks like Azrael's just grasping at straws to get a lynch and legitimize himself.



None.

Jan 10 2013, 7:20 am rayNimagi Post #145



Quote from Daddywhoo
cause right now it looks like Azrael's just grasping at straws to get a lynch and legitimize himself.
Well he DID post a video of his role PM. And a mafia died at night, implying that Azrael is in contact with the vigilante and directed him appropriately.

EDIT: I vote Daddywho.



Win by luck, lose by skill.

Jan 10 2013, 7:20 am lil-Inferno Post #146

Just here for the pie

Daddywhoo confirmed Mafia for previous post.




Jan 10 2013, 7:29 am Daddywhoo Post #147



Oops. Missed that. Either way, videos can be edited. But I will admit that that's decent evidence for him being a townie. I can provide a screenshot of my inbox if you guys want? I'm not sure if that's even an effective defense given the way the game is going.
What allowed him to direct the vigilante appropriately? I'm not denying that it's for the better that Dem0n died but what exactly was his proof? To my understanding this game has no clues in it so he somehow figured out a mafia based on...? Or he just took a shot in the dark for some reason. Neither one of these seem particularly likely to me so I honestly am curious.



None.

Jan 10 2013, 8:52 am InsolubleFluff Post #148



Quote from Daddywhoo
Oops. Missed that. Either way, videos can be edited. But I will admit that that's decent evidence for him being a townie. I can provide a screenshot of my inbox if you guys want? I'm not sure if that's even an effective defense given the way the game is going.
What allowed him to direct the vigilante appropriately? I'm not denying that it's for the better that Dem0n died but what exactly was his proof? To my understanding this game has no clues in it so he somehow figured out a mafia based on...? Or he just took a shot in the dark for some reason. Neither one of these seem particularly likely to me so I honestly am curious.

mafia scum!



None.

Jan 10 2013, 2:15 pm Wing Zero Post #149

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

I assume he looked through the screenshots people sent him and compared them to each other




Jan 10 2013, 3:37 pm Azrael Post #150



Demon's screenshot had some inconsistencies. I told him what the mistakes were when he died, and he said he'd realized his error shortly after sending the message.




Jan 10 2013, 11:35 pm Wing Zero Post #151

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

I change my vote to Aristocrat




Jan 10 2013, 11:58 pm Azrael Post #152



Don't vote Aristocrat, he's not a Mafia. I got his screenshot already, he's confirmed Town.




Jan 11 2013, 12:07 am NudeRaider Post #153

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from poison_us
Quote from NudeRaider
And poison why are you allowing this? This should be considered cheating and result in a ban.
First of all, I'm allowing it because Azrael explicitly stated how easy it would be for someone with the proper knowledge to fake it.
Faking a screenshot is not hard. Faking 30 screenshots a second is not much harder but a lot more work (or requires the use of more advanced tools). So yes it's possible to create a faked video of your role PM but only for those who have the required skills, knowledge and will. But it doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a skill that should just not be part of the game so it doesn't make sense to allow it in the first place. At best it just distracts from the actual game. At worst it breaks it.

Quote from poison_us
Second, and more importantly, I'm allowing it because I am not changing the rules after the game starts for any reason. I would expect you to understand the reasoning behind this without me actually needing to explain it.
I'm not suggesting changing the rules, I'm suggesting ending the game and starting one with better rules. This is not Mafia anymore. This is "hunt the screenshot inconsistencies".




Jan 11 2013, 12:09 am InsolubleFluff Post #154



I am with Nuderaider, I quit.
I lied about being the detective to mess with people's head. I wanted the detective to identify me as being innocent so I had a partner to co-ordinate with and I wanted to mess around with the mafia in hope that they would divert their attacks away from other people in hope they would just kill me, a simple townsperson.

Screenshots have been all this is about and with the use of video, it essentially became who could prove their screenshot was the most realistic. Hell, Roy created a screenshot FOR me, without me even asking him, just so I could get Azrael off my back. I could use that screenshot in combination with an actual screenshot to show you my fake 'Detective' PM and my real 'Townsperson' PM, but I will not, because I do not care enough any more.

This was the worst mafia game I have ever played, I didn't even read the damn night post, I just saw the only casualty was Dem0n and carried on. The fun of solving who the bad guys are and the mind melting of turning each other against one another is what made this game fun in the first place, so again, I quit.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 11 2013, 12:14 am by InsolubleFluff.



None.

Jan 11 2013, 12:35 am Azrael Post #155



Quote from poison_us
I'm allowing it because Azrael explicitly stated how easy it would be for someone with the proper knowledge to fake it.

Wait, what? Here's a quote from the first page:

Quote from Azrael
Quote from poison_us
I'm allowing videos and screenshots, which are traditionally banned, because they are easily doctored in many, many ways.

It's not easy for everyone. The ability to alter text, on the other hand, is completely straightforward and equally easy for everyone to do.

Making it necessary to edit screenshots or modify webpages, which are completely unrelated to Mafia, in order to not be revealed is very lame. It also takes longer to doctor screenshots than it does to doctor text, which makes it even worse for people put on the spot. Not to mention it's a lot more unnecessary work for everyone involved; it would be incredibly annoying if it became a trend. And it's really unfortunate for the people who already have trouble faking text PMs to make it a hundred times harder to fabricate them.

And from the shoutbox, before the game started (these weren't all on the same page so I'll just copy them, paste them in a top-down order, and color myself blue):

[2012-12-27. : 9:29 pm] poison_us -- Az, I'm at a loss as to where you're not happy with the current rule regarding videos and screenshots as allowed.

[2012-12-27. : 9:32 pm] Azrael -- Lol poison, I'm not unhappy because it doesn't benefit me, that much is certain :P

[2012-12-27. : 9:32 pm] Azrael -- If anything, the game is going to be too easy.


[2012-12-27. : 9:36 pm] Dem0n -- Photoshopping something is as much lying as writing a false PM is.

[2012-12-27. : 9:37 pm] Azrael -- Except not everyone knows how to use a photo editing program or even has one.

[2012-12-27. : 9:37 pm] Azrael -- Everyone knows how to edit a block of raw text.


[2012-12-27. : 9:38 pm] poison_us -- Also, I'm not assuming people are as technologically knowledgeable as I am..I'm assuming that people play with all the features of a new program, which is something that everyone should be able to do :P

[2012-12-27. : 9:40 pm] Azrael -- poison_us -- Also, I'm assuming people are as technologically knowledgeable as I am..I'm assuming that people play with all the features of a new program, and understand them all, and know what source code is and how to edit it and how to then take a screenshot of it without any traces of their editing in it, which is something that everyone should be able to do :P

[2012-12-27. : 9:40 pm] Azrael -- Fixed.

[2012-12-27. : 9:41 pm] Azrael -- Now imagine if I had had to edit a screenshot to change your shout to that visually.

[2012-12-27. : 9:41 pm] Azrael -- I wouldn't go to the trouble, because that's what it is, trouble.


[2012-12-27. : 9:42 pm] poison_us -- Your views differ from mine, and that's exactly why you crusade like this whenever anyone disagrees.

[2012-12-27. : 9:42 pm] Azrael -- It's a pain in the ass and it disadvantages people unnecessarily just because they're not familiar with editing webpages/photos. There's no reason to not leave editing role PMs at text, so it's easy and accessible to everyone equally.

[2012-12-27. : 9:46 pm] Azrael -- It's not my view, read the previous shout. That's entirely objective. You're simply arguing for the sake of arguing, and haven't even attempted to provide a single benefit to changing the rule which everyone else has always agreed upon.


[2012-12-27. : 9:44 pm] Dem0n -- If poison decides to make all PMs the same per role, faking PMs will be incredibly irrelevant. ;o

[2012-12-27. : 9:47 pm] Azrael -- @Dem0n, it won't be fucking irrelevant if screenshots/videos are allowed, that's the point.

[2012-12-27. : 9:47 pm] Azrael -- It doesn't matter if they are all identical PMs, because the screenshots would still all be unique.

[2012-12-27. : 9:47 pm] Azrael -- Thus everyone would be required to fake their own screenshot.

[2012-12-27. : 9:48 pm] Azrael -- Worst case scenario, someone gets caught because they aren't great with Photoshop. WOW FUN.

[2012-12-27. : 9:48 pm] Azrael -- Best case scenario, everyone goes to all the trouble of faking the same screenshot, and nothing changes. WOW NECESSARY


[2012-12-27. : 9:52 pm] Dem0n -- Why don't you just worry about yourself? My mistakes will make it so much easier for you to lynch me, won't it?

[2012-12-27. : 9:53 pm] Azrael -- You're already easy.

[2012-12-27. : 9:54 pm] Azrael -- I'm going to make a video showing me opening three different browsers and navigating to the role PM page on all of them. Confirmed.

[2012-12-27. : 9:55 pm] Azrael -- No one on this site has the technical ability or work ethic to actually fake that.

[2012-12-27. : 10:36 pm] Azrael -- If Mafia is going to become "who can use photoshop the best wins" then that's boring. And there are some people here I know can't/wouldn't fake a screenshot, so whatever they post I'll know is legit.

[2012-12-27. : 10:39 pm] Azrael -- Luckily the world of Mafia hosting largely and greatly looks harshly upon players proving their roles through such methods :P It's just poison that thinks it might "work" (aka, he thinks there will be no benefit, but there will be no downside either, although that's clearly untrue since the extra work involved is already a downside, and if there's no potential benefit then there really is no point).

So don't say you did it for my sake :P

Quote from NudeRaider
So yes it's possible to create a faked video of your role PM but only for those who have the required skills, knowledge and will. But it doesn't matter how easy it is, it's a skill that should just not be part of the game so it doesn't make sense to allow it in the first place. At best it just distracts from the actual game. At worst it breaks it.
Quote from NudeRaider
This is not Mafia anymore. This is "hunt the screenshot inconsistencies".

I agree completely on both accounts.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 11 2013, 12:44 am by Azrael.




Jan 11 2013, 12:42 am Wing Zero Post #156

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

What would have been better is for the role PM to just say "you are a townsman". That way even if you quote the pm they don't have anything to compare it to.

Plus it's not like you had to show AZ your role pms everyone. I didn't and I'm still alive. :P





Jan 11 2013, 12:52 am Azrael Post #157



Quote from Wing Zero
What would have been better is for the role PM to just say "you are a townsman". That way even if you quote the pm they don't have anything to compare it to.

It doesn't matter. It's still possible to find errors in the screenshots. That's the point. This is just "who can verify their screenshots the best".

Quote from Wing Zero
Plus it's not like you had to show AZ your role pms everyone. I didn't and I'm still alive. :P

You were one of the only people not to submit your role, and one of the only people to not contribute to the game. The only reason the Mafia were found is because almost everyone besides you complied and submitted their role PMs.

Why were there no deaths last night? Because the Doctors were able to organize through the hub.

Why did a Mafia die last night? Because the Vigilante was able to organize through the hub.

If you want to play as a lone wolf and refuse to cooperate with other Townies and sabotage them through your voluntary isolation, just because you don't feel any desire to win, then have at it. I'm not sure what the point of signing up to play is if you're not going to play.

Yeah, you're alive. Thank the rest of your team for that.




Jan 11 2013, 12:55 am InsolubleFluff Post #158



Everyone needs to just shut up and quit, get this damn thing over with.



None.

Jan 11 2013, 1:44 am Wing Zero Post #159

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

Quote from Azrael
Quote from Wing Zero
What would have been better is for the role PM to just say "you are a townsman". That way even if you quote the pm they don't have anything to compare it to.

It doesn't matter. It's still possible to find errors in the screenshots. That's the point. This is just "who can verify their screenshots the best".

In this case I wasn't talking about screenshots in particular. The game should be played based on trust and deception. A unique role pm for everyone also takes away from the game. When you didn't have screenshots to use you would always ask for a role pm.

What I meant was everyone shoud get the same PM "You are X". That way you whether believe him or you don't you can't proove he's lieing.





Jan 11 2013, 1:57 am Azrael Post #160



Yeah, that would be a good way for the host to make asking for the text from role PMs irrelevant.




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