I'm sorry - but I don't see how surprise theme will do anything to stop people from using pregathered audio files. Nor would it stop people using pre made triggers, nor would it stop people using premade terrain.

Theme's are restrictive; they hamper mappers' creativity, and they do practically nothing to stop the problem of 'starting early', which seems to be the only reason you foolishly foolish fools want to impose it.

As I have already said, there is no point having rules that can't be policed/verified/enforced. You may as well just stick with the honour system, or just forgo the rule entirely.

Themes challenge mappers' creativity, not hamper them. It's a lot easier to create whatever you want, but it's also fun and challenging to try to make a map that fits within certain guidelines. It also allows us to pick a winner more clearly, since everyone is making relatively the same type of map. If everyone makes a different type of map, it's harder to tell who really is the better mapper, since different genres call for different things within the map.

I think you're getting themes and genres mixed up. A theme can be "Fire" and people can submit bounds, RPGs, defense games, etc. as long as the map pertains to a fire theme.

Yes, we may as well.

Theme: generic broad thing like 'fire' 'revenge' 'tanks...' (aka, does nothing to stop 'starting early') and can easily be worked into a map just by altering strings.
Genre: RPG, Bound, Arena

If you set a surprise genre that certainly would hamper a lot of people who had started triggers early, as long as the genre they were previously working on didn't get picked (obviously). However it wouldn't really stop premade terrain or premade audio. And I think you would lose mappers as well. For instance I personally am only really interested in mapping RPG genres. If the suprise genre bound was dropped on me I would just quit.

Oh, right. Well, it still allows you to judge everyone's ability to interpret a certain theme, which allows for more straightforward judging.

I had always considered enforcing content made before the contest by requiring contestants to post it right before the contest began.

The problem with that is I don't always know what content I'm going to use for a map before I start working on it. It's often when I'm polishing a map that I'll start digging through sound files.

If you're editing the sound files for use in the map, then I'd consider it mapping. That's how I've always approached it myself.

If you're amassing clips that have already been edited for use in the map, then I'd consider it mapping.

The only plausible exception I could see is finding raw unedited audio to format/edit after the contest starts.


In Autocracy RPG, there are 7 different music tracks composed of approximately one second clips, which can fade in and fade out at any point of the track (meaning all of those clips had to be have a second clip edited for the effect). All that audio work, including finding, formatting, editing, importing, and timing the clips was done during the contest.

I consider the audio used in a map to be as much a part of the map as the triggers or terrain or any other content unique to the map itself.

I do the exact same process to make my own ringtones. So I'm mapping when I'm making a ringtone?

Well, I guess I'm disqualified because of something I did about a year ago.

You edit sound clips for use in a map when you make ringtones? That's odd.

I edit sound clips for use as ringtones when I make ringtones.

The process may be the same, but the intention isn't. Since we run on the honor system, I'd say intention is pretty important in self-policing.

If someone feels like they're going against the spirit of the contest's intended time frame, then they probably are.

If I enter this, I'm going to put ringtones in my map.

I made sound clips with no intentions (like I said, I was just bored once upon a while ago). They are in a suitable format to put straight onto a phone, or straight into a map. I'm asking if you think I'm allowed to use these for the contest.

Sure, since audio is unique in the sense it's not necessarily possible to reproduce it otherwise. However, I wouldn't personally start looking through formatted clips to use in the map until after the contest started.

Well, now it could be argued that I'm unfairly starting with more resources than other people.

That's almost the definition of planning. You're basically saying you won't be planning anything (for audio, at least) until after the contest has started.

You have a very interesting line between planning and mapping, Azrael. I suppose if I wanted to make the name of one of my characters an anagram of a friend of mine, I would only be allowed to assemble a list of names and couldn't start looking at anagrams for their names until the contest has started.

It sounds ridiculous to me, this line you've drawn (purely on "intention," it seems). I don't even think it's that big an issue; there are dozens of things you can do for planning that will save you several hours or days of mapping, whereas editing audio might take you a half hour. But it seems like we won't be able to convince each other where the line should be for audio.

Saying it's okay to format and edit audio for the map before the contest starts is equivalent to saying it's okay to write triggers for the map in a text document before the contest starts. As long as it's not part of the map yet, it's okay? The fact is that as soon as you start editing clips for the map, you are no longer doing anything that can be called "planning". At that point you are working directly on the contents of the map itself, which is what I consider "mapping".

Of course, I assume different people go by different standards, so I don't expect everyone to adhere to mine. That's just how I approach it myself.

One is editing sound which can be used for anything, and one is creating a document which only functions in a StarCraft map. I see those as not equivalent.

Also, I was under the impression that writing pseudo-triggers or a system architecture was allowed as part of the planning process.

Fixed.

It doesn't matter if the audio can technically be used for other things. The text document can be too. I could use the triggers to demonstrate how to write triggers to someone, or use the file itself as a bookmark in my video folder. The possibilities are endless.

What does matter is that the files are being edited with the intention of importing them directly into the map afterwards, also known as working directly on the contents of the map itself, which is what I consider "mapping".


If writing fully functional triggers that can and will be added directly to the map is considered "pseudo-triggers", then I guess formatting and editing audio that can and will be added directly to the map should be okay as well. Of course, I don't think either should be allowed.

At any rate, I will judge my own conduct by my own standards, and I suppose other people will judge themselves by their own.

This thread makes me sad. One thing going on is a bunch of narcissists trying to shape the contest as if the world revolved around them. Another is people arguing about what mapping is and what does or does not violate starting a map before the contest begins. If Kaias or whoever is running the contest, trust them (with creating and enforcing rules effectively) and if you don't, stay out of the contest. When I was hosting monthly mapping contests, there was never half as much dramatics or debate.

Less talk, more contest and more maps. It's a one week contest held over the summer. If one contest goes bad or gets blown out of proportion by someone who spent a year on a map and touches it up for a week, then you can still fit ten more of these contests into the summer with different hosts and different rules. (Some are of the opinion that the purpose of the contest is to get quality maps made and good mappers some exposure and motivation, right?)

Well, to clarify this latter discussion, Kaias indicated that people should speak up with whether or not they are okay with editing audio before the contest.

The only thing I want for this contest is a good and clear "Theme".
Please, something easy to understand (the last contest I joined had a very rare theme [over the top ] and many people didn't understand it).

just my 2 cents