I protest this starting bandwagon on Tikels out of grudge and some shaky too-obv-to-be-true clues.

That clue was obscure as fuck. I'm surprised anyone found something like that.

I vote TiKels. He confessed on MSN.



Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 17 2011, 3:40 am by Roy.

I find the // to easily draw your attention to any sentence it leads when you throw it in a raw-text-like piece of clue. But that's just me. You may be right. I'm going to stop talking.

Who says there's only 1 infiltrator?

Even if Hellfire wasn't the/an infiltrator, he was a stupid townie because he tried to frame Aristocrat despite Aristo being able to kill him at any time. So it doesn't really matter if he was USS or not - he played stupidly so deserves what he got.

TiKels is at least a hacker. While he may be more than that, I doubt it, otherwise he has the perfect chance as a Hacker/Infiltrator to fuck over the town by only placing one player in his list. No, even better: if he was Infiltrator he could've told his USS brothers exactly who to hit every night. FYI: by far the most active player in killing townsmen is Aristocrat, unless a single Assassin is to be blamed for the deaths of every USS kill.

I can't help but think that the people who so aggressively want TiKels lynched, when he's one of the few players I could almost completely trust based on logic, are either misguided or simply want to kill off an otherwise valuable player. Not to mention that as soon as Aristocrat comes back, we get 3 instant votes for TiKels without reasoning.

I'm playing this game as if we have three USS are remaining. Riney is most definitely not the Beguiler, and I find it very doubtful he was the Infiltrator. It seems fairly clear that Demon was USS, and it's also likely Hellfire was the/an Infiltrator. Rather, I'd like to speculate that the Beguiler (if he's unable to hide his own death), an Assassin, and (hope I'm wrong about this one) a Saboteur are alive, and this may be the last fair vote the town has. If we lynch a townie, it becomes 8-3. When Aristocrat kills another townsman overnight, it'll be 7-3, maybe even 6-3 if we fail to wall off the Assassin, and with a well-aimed bandwagon or Saboteur action, it only takes two bad/forced votes to end the game.

I still vote Aristocrat. Too much seems wrong about how you're playing this game, bro.

Actually I voted for Roy first. My vote for Tikels is quite reasoned.

Also I don't know how you come up with 3 USS left. Town roles for everyone remaining are pretty much confirmed:

3. TiKels (P) - Hacker
8. Raitaki (P) - Researcher (proof - see thread)
9. Aristocrat (Rogue Engineer) (proof - obvious)
10. Roy (P) - Project director (semi-proof: claimed to be infected and needed treatment)
13. poison_us (P) - Pathologist (proof)
15. Tempz (P) - Researcher (proof - see thread)
16. Echo (P) - Virologist (proof - blood test confirmed self-administered anti-virals + infection)
22. Lanthanide (P) - Virologist (proof - cured Roy with help of Sac)
24. EzTerix (P) - Researcher (proof - see thread)
25. ImagoDeo (P) - Hacker (proof, test performed by Roy and I - Roy is it possible that actually Imago is USS? You know the full details, I don't)

Also your numbers don't add up. There are 10 players and 11 votes assuming Roy is project director. If there are 3 USS left then it's 8 vs 3 right now. If we kill a townie it becomes 7 vs 3.

How can you possibly fit 3 USS in there? Unless you're saying the beguiler can use other people's powers, or generate research when they aren't a researcher or something.

Hacker is the easiest role to fake claim. If a hacking attempt fails they can just say someone else fucked up or they forgot or whatever.

I encourage you to re-examine your tests you did to 'prove' Tikels was genuine and see if there's any possible holes in them.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Nov 17 2011, 7:47 am by Lanthanide.

Wait! I talked to TiKels some more, and it turns out he was just kidding when he said he was USS! False alarm.

I vote No Lynch.

The only way he could have faked the test to make himself pass is if he's the Infiltrator, in which case, a clue pointing towards him wouldn't have shown up in the night post. Therefore, it's nearly impossible for him to be USS.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 17 2011, 7:48 am by Roy.

So how do you justify this with Aristocrat's clue interpretation?

Unless that clue was actually a "falsified document", which I guess we have no way of knowing either way. Maybe genuine clues = mathematics, falsified documents = wordy documents?

I edited the post to answer that:
The time frame he had to follow through with the test was very short (about 30 minutes before the night ended), during which I believe I was the only other active player. Under this restriction, he couldn't have even instructed the Infiltrator to fake the test for him. Therefore, the two options of what TiKels could be are:

1. Hacker
2. Infiltrator

No clues point to the Infiltrator, meaning the clue found is the work of a Researcher using Falsify Document.

Finally, on the night Aristocrat "died," he was on a different side of the wall than TiKels, meaning that TiKels couldn't use suggest if he was the Infiltrator. The only option remaining is townie Hacker.

Now, on to Aristocrat: he was targeted by the Infiltrator, who instructed Aristocrat to fake his own death. This was likely combined with the Beguiler's power to make the night action read that Aristocrat was murdered, even though Aristocrat should have been protected that night. Aristocrat comes back after a short while because his death was faked. The Pathologist's results show that Aristocrat still has the Infiltrator's drug compound in his system, meaning he is still under the power of suggestion. This means Aristocrat is not the Infiltrator because he is being targeted by the Infiltrator, and he's already been confirmed as the Rogue Engineer. Ergo, Aristocrat is also innocent.

I suggest you switch to No Lynch unless you have a more likely candidate than these two.

I think we should try and lynch someone. As I posted earlier, every day where we don't lynch someone, if the USS kills someone the following night then we are in no worse a position than if we lynched a townie and the USS didn't kill anyone.

Also, good spotting on the clue loophole for infiltrator. Should we now in fact suspect Raitaki, for either making all his research up, or for using falsify documents and so got an easy to decipher clue against Tikels?

We've really got quite slim pickings out of the list of players and roles I drew up there. I guess the researchers are the only people left, if we assume Tikels and Imago are hackers and you're truly project director.

I vote No Lynch for now. Azrael: I will almost certainly not be around when the day ends, so in the event Roy changes his lynch vote to someone else, set my vote to be the same as his. Unless he votes for me, in which case I vote for him

I vote no lynch

Quote from Lanthanide

I encourage you to re-examine your tests you did to 'prove' Tikels was genuine and see if there's any possible holes in them.

I was sealed off from Olimar the night that Aristocrat came back. TiKels was told to seal only me, while the other hacker was told to seal off both of us. My action did not go through, thus either the other hacker played foul or TiKels is definitely a Hacker. And I just now realized Roy answered this above.

As for my voting power tally thing, I got three mafia because there is at least the Beguiler alive, as well as a possible Assassin and Saboteur. We haven't seen a Saboteur death, and it seems odd if there's only one Assassin. As I've said a ton of times before, Riney also cannot be the Beguiler, and so I think the Beguiler is able to effect the public role of people killed. This kind of makes it a pain in the ass if you're trying to estimate how many USS are left, though. However, I think the Beguiler has to target a specific player the same day/night that they die, and that's why Demon showed up as an Assassin. Anywho, enough speculating; I also forgot Roy claimed Director, so I kinda forgot to add one vote for him.

This aside, I switch to No Lynch, because both parties are proven to be townies. I knew TiKels was town earlier, which is why three people instavoting him made me go Though it's too late to get the lynch off of TiKels, we can at least keep any shenanigans from killing Aristocrat as well/instead.

k, so the cat is out of the bag. I falsified that doc to see how Az's clues work. I am doing this again tomorrow with Ez, and I believe Tempz is going to do that as well.

Each of the Researchers should falsify a document on someone else and reveal what their false document clue is. We can then verify that they at least have the role they claim to have as a cross-reference with the game post.

The only problem with this is that it's only finding USS roles other than the Infiltrator; the Infiltrator can still be any player among us, and assuming he hasn't died already, he will be the hardest to find.

I think I posted this earlier, but it wouldn't surprise me if beguiler does have a death role ability, that it might only apply to other USS. So Riney may have been saboteur.

Well I'm not convinced that Riney is absolutely not Beguiler. It seems unlikely but I don't think we should just rule it out because it's 'convenient' for our current theories.

Rai: Townies who have lied in the past (in this case, by omission) have met rather unfortunate ends. I really think you should have told us it was a fake clue before we went and killed off a genuine townie.

TiKels has been fairly useless, so I don't believe he would have been missed.

Why is No Lynch even an option? I hope future mafia games does not have that crappy ass option.

I would have missed him.

For future reference, if anyone wants a No Lynch, vote Echo. He'd be happier that way, clearly.