You probably should have checked to see all the posts I deleted before you said anything.

If we use http://www.staredit.net/?p=voting to see if members should be a mod for a forum, maybe we could use it to see if a mod can stay as a mod?

The voting originally started as a way to rate mods, but that was changed, I believe.

I haven't been paying much attention to this at all, but anyways. I just read most of the first page... and if for nothing else, all the conflict and drama he causes should be reason enough to remove him from his position. It's not like this is the first time we've had 'Esponeo' topics. The drama is unnecessary. The admins need to step up and realize that Esponeo has no preordained right to be a mod. There are several people in the community who would be able to serve as better global moderators. Moose went over all the locked topics on that post on the first page: ok so most of them were justified, but if 2, 3, 4, or more topics that he's locking are completely ridiculous within such a short span of time then you need to do something about it.

Rather give him a last warning (a serious one) or fire him already. End of story. He goes inactive for weeks at a time anyways. The lack of consistency is not good. It goes from no moderation from him to an excess in moderation and such fluctuations do not help the situation.

A quick summary of what has taken place:

I vote we cease this whining. I see two options. Ban Zell. or Esponeo can be a little nicer.

.. thanks buddy, that.. that improved my day.


Don't have the proper skills to. If you look at how other people (in the melee forum) give advice and how you give advice you can see a clear difference in attitude. Your attitude seems impatient, uncaring, and as if you think you know everything and they know nothing. I saw you getting criticized much less harshly than you criticize people once, and you immediately became angry and told the guy to fuck off, or something along those lines.

I didnt take any offensive tone unless first given one, there were a few incidents some months ago in the melee section that i cant even recall clearly at the moment, and in any case i consider them dead and buried. If there is any difference in attitude in how I give advice, I have yet to see it, I simply state what I see wrong with the map and leave it up to the maker on how they want to take it. What i cannot stand is people who clearly demonstrate through the map they post that they know nothing of how to assemble a melee map and then challenge the genuinely good advice i give them. Worse is when people give bad advice such as 'I think this map is good and i see nothing wrong with it' when they are just as clueless about melee map making as the person posting it, if not more so. If i was nice enough to take the time to help them out, Id like them to take my word for it, but maybe Im asking too much there.

People like to know WHY they are being told to change something. It's hard to truly appreciate advice when you don't understand it. When giving advice you explain the reason to people in such a clipped manner that the only people who could understand it are people who already know not to make the mistakes in the first place.

/thread hijacked

Although Esponeo may be locking topics unnecessarily, holds bitter hatred towards many members myself included, and has an attitude problem as speculate by many, I don't believe it is necessarily a good idea to fire him. If Esponeo is willing to listen to well-addressed and positive criticism from both members and admins alike then he is still qualified as a moderator. The important thing for any moderator is to be open to the community and not live in their own shells and adapt to changing situations.

But most importantly I trust that MiniMoose2707 knows what he is doing and that he is making the right decision. I'm highly suspicious over this but if it turns out that Minimoose2707 today is no longer the competent administrator that I have known for over 4 years, then I will have lost all faith and hope in staredit network's adminstration but I pray to God begging for that day to never come.

I personally don't think any administrative action is necessary. I may disagree with some of the lockings, but that doesn't make Esponeo a bad moderator. If you have an issue with one of his actions he may heed your word if you send him a polite, descriptive PM (although I cannot back that statement, I would assume it to be customary moderator action.)
I do disagree with some of his actions, as I've said previously, but most of those have already been resolved (though I'd like to point out that it is inevitable to agree with everything a moderator does.) He could, perhaps, deal with things in a bit kinder way, despite some of his comments being somewhat amusing.
Finally, I partly agree with the action taken for things like the terraining topic. I agree because there really wasn't productive discussion going on. I disagree because someone may eventually have something productive to say. Perhaps in the future if you are only saying "good job", find something specific to point out or criticize. Though if there isn't anything absolutely wrong with a piece of terrain, there isn't much else to say... You can't have a topic with no praise or comments permitted. I think this isn't necessarily a problem with Esponeo specificially.

I wish there was a way to double italisize the may

It just especially bugs me when he is a global moderator, yet he barely comes to the website, but when he does he runs around and suddenly locks tons of topics, some of which have been dead for a while. I guess that's the main reason people get so mad, rather than spacing out his moderation, like most do, he does it in small sprints, making it much more annoying and noticeable.

A nonbinding vote couldn't hurt, but I think anyone could predict the outcome.

Quote

By the way, I wouldn't be here if I had been permanently banned from SEN, idiot.

As countless members have proven, it isn't possible to be permanently banned from SEN

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If Esponeo is willing to listen to well-addressed and positive criticism from both members and admins alike

Unfortunately, not:

Quote from Esponeo

I'd like to note that if such a thing [the effect of this topic] appears to be true it is merely a coincidence.

I for one believe that many of the posts (but certainly not all) have constituted well-addressed and positive criticism.

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But most importantly I trust that MiniMoose2707 knows what he is doing and that he is making the right decision. I'm highly suspicious over this but if it turns out that Minimoose2707 today is no longer the competent administrator that I have known for over 4 years, then I will have lost all faith and hope in staredit network's adminstration but I pray to God begging for that day to never come.

Amen..

Suck up

Perhaps it has not occurred to you that certain people getting pissed off when I moderate them is a sign that I am doing something right.

Believe it or not there is a reason the same people get moderated over and over again and it has nothing to do with any personal bias on my part.

At one time I was exclusively a moderator of the terrain forum. I created strict guidelines and demanded that anyone posting say something specific and useful about a blend instead of just hating or congratulating it.

The tears generated sustain my being.

I wonder why it didn't occur to me, either? Perhaps because it is wrong? People shouldn't be getting this pissed off, I can understand them being a bit frustrated, but making complaint topics about a single moderator is a bit much, wouldn't you agree?

As far as I can tell KrayZee already admitted that the entire point of this topic was to create controversy, and that he did not care the slightest bit about it. People like Zell who actually had a problem with me have now been swiftly brought to my side. Even a sheep like Excalibur who had some ancient grudge against me has been wooed by my prompt moderation actions.

Is anyone who was actually affected by my moderation still against me? I'd love to create another convert.

I suspect only sheep remain.

Eh, you deleted a post of mine that neither of us can remember. Am I supposed to get upset that you deleted probably what amounted to an offhand remark? On the other hand, Doodan fined me 25 minerals when I called conspiracy theorists about global warming "dumb shits" or something along those lines. Firstly, Doodan obviously hasn't a clue about the veracity of my statement for which he fined me (oh, the audacity!). I've noticed that your trolling skills have grown more distant of late though, just like Devilesk's. Perhaps a little battle fatigue from keeping it up all these years? Maybe a taste for the subliminal this time around. Esponeo, you'd better get back on track, because if SEN doesn't have drama, there's nothing to keep members coming back time and again.

No, not necessarily. They spam, you delete it and warn them through PM. They continue, delete and warn them publically. If they're still dense about it, hand off your evidence to an administrator who can take action against their account, be it a banning or otherwise.


Non sequitur.


Yes, "I don't like it" comments without any support or constructive criticism should be discouraged, and even moderated if an extreme problem. However, you shouldn't punish the thread creator by locking their topic because of how others chose to respond.

But...praise? I disagree wholeheartedly on that point. If I were to post my work and get twenty-odd comments with nothing but unconstructive praise, what's so wrong with that? As a creator, it makes me feel good. While I would certainly appreciate any constructive criticism, the simple fact that people enjoy my work confers a bit of extra motivation to continue creating. Now, as a moderator, you could pipe in that you want to see more constructive comments instead of idle compliments. But to lock the topic? To essentially punish the creator for the comments of his peers? No, I'm sorry, that's just wrong on a very fundamental level, and as a fellow creator, I find it insulting. It literally pisses me off to see that. I would not submit my work to such a community, just on principle.


= personal bias. Granted, you didn't say you lack any personal bias, just that it isn't a factor in the way you moderate. When you express so clearly the existance of such bias, however, how can people, both members and your fellow administration, not wonder about your intentions? You've created an uphill battle for yourself.


That's what I've been hoping for. How about an addendum, though? "Willing to listen, and act on, well-addressed and positive criticism." When I made the suggestion that when he receives PMs from people asking about his moderating, he should ignore any insults or frustrations and instead get to the heart of the matter. His reply was the above comment about not speaking to dead men.

There will be people on this forum who do not express themselves well. It is a fact of forum life. A moderator shouldn't be one of those. Instead, a moderator needs to be capable of dealing with them appropriately (read: politely), and, ideally, reforming them for the betterment of the community. Not sparring frustration with insult.

Esponeo lets things get to him. His comment above about dead men demonstrates contempt. Anger. Responding emotionally is the last thing a moderator should do. It is reckless and unprofessional. He needs to know his limits, and walk away when reached. Cool off. Come back and cut out the snarky comments (trolls might get a lolz, but when you're a moderator that's just not appropriate anymore), and stick to the business at hand.

Over the years I have seen outstanding successes and abominable failures in the realm of moderating. It all boils down to one thing: Their personality. You can see that best with how they handle, and resolve, a conflict.

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Jul 1 2008, 8:15 am by Hercanic.

I fined you for flaming. Just because a person believes their opinion is the truth does not give one the right to flame.

Was this directed at me?

The tools are now in place for me deal with these issues in a legitimate fashion.

Sometimes people being moderated actually deserve it.

I do not intend to lock such topics in the future. Any new posts in that forum that are idle compliments or idle complaints will be swiftly removed.

Believe it or not there was a time when I made several maps and used these forums extensively, especially the terrain forum. I know far better than most people about what goes on in the Terrain section. Trust me when I say that the creator of the topic I locked isn't missing out on anything.

Someone being dead is not a matter of personal opinion.

None of my actions in the past few days have been motivated by anger.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Jul 1 2008, 9:51 am by Esponeo.