From http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2685005#blog

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 3 2011, 10:21 am by Jack.

Nooooo mah pylons D:

Well.. This changes things..

Big patch for toss... 4gate wasn't even like.. Super imba. Baww.

Guess this means I'll be building 2-3 units from the gates before I change em...

Try saying this when you play me pvp and I 4 gate you.

@Balancing
Interesting patch....
So Spore Crawlers root way faster than Spine Crawlers now??
Lots of changes to Protoss

@Tutorial
It's interesting to see Blizzard do stuff like this.
Again, it is in line with the reasoning that they didn't give enough time to the Editor dept before releasing the game, which probably resulted in why the Editor is such a big fuck up.
But they aren't that stupid.
They released the editor, knowing that people will jump on it and try to make something out of it. This is evident in the 3 different Galaxy editor wiki's that I know of... (is there any reason for there to be THREE?), and in the way they tried to overhype the map editor (with the third person shooter, underground layer, etc). They were expecteing people to make amazing things, and so are we.
But, by releasing tutorials themselves, it would also mean that they feel the current online resources are not good enough, assuming that they have done their research and looked at what the community has done over the months, which is a good assumption.
It doesn't matter if they're trying to rescue Custom maps now, because they still need to worry about their next 2 installments. I don't know how long they plan to milk this franchise by not giving us what we deserve, but it is getting on my nerves.

All in all, the editor is poorly designed, and it shows through the lack of good maps, the terrible featured maps, the sorry attempts of trying to get people to understand the editor, such as this tutorial, the lack of mappers willing to struggle through the data editor, and the gradual decline of the mapping scene overall. (Although I think the Custom map System is much more of an issue than the editor)

The editor still isn't a big fuck up. It really isn't. Complicated does not equal bad, especially when so many people do understand how to use it. SC2Mapster would not be as successful if hundreds and hundreds of people didn't understand the editor. I realize no matter what any of us tell you, you wont change your mind, but this is getting ridiculous. Seriously. I'm tired of seeing you repeat the exact same complaints about the editor when you have no idea what you are talking about. At least Iskatu has complaints that he can back up with his own knowledge of the editor. You just seem to mimic what you think you hear from other people who also don't get it. At this rate it seems like every time you open the editor, you just get frustrated because of the options, and decide to go on a rampage because you don't get it. I'm really sorry that it is easy for us and difficult for you, but I don't knwo what to tell you. We all learned by reading tutorials and guides, or just playing with it, and we've come a long way just by doing that.


Sure there's a reason for there to be three wikis. SEN, SC2Mod, UDMod, and Hive Workshop don't want to link to SC2Mapster's, so we have GalaxyWiki. SC2Mapster has their own, and don't need to link to anyone else's. Blizzard has their own because they probably don't want to link to a third party's. They release their own tutorials for this exact reason, not because any current resource isn't good enough. ProzaicMuse's tutorial on Movers at SC2M is more detailed than Blizzard's, so that already disproves that idea.


I don't see why you think we "deserve" anything. We paid for the game, they clearly care more about melee than custom maps (which is the smarter choice since that is the reason why StarCraft 1 went on as long as it did, not UMS), and they can do what they want. Clearly the Custom Map system on BNet is lacking, but they'll fix it eventually. Think about how long it took us to make advancements in SC1 mapmaking, and compare that to what we can do in SC2 now. It will get better.


What makes you think there is a lack of good maps? There are some really awesome ones out there, much better than the things we did in SC1. Why don't you actually make a map rather than complain about how there is nothing good out there, and then you can be happy with at least 1 good one?

No, the Editor isn't a big fuck up. The whole thing put together is a ginormous fuck up.

I'm also seriously tired of seeing people say that Starcraft 2 is great, while numerous problems with the game are still running rampant. The Custom Map system is a joke, and is a testament to how low Blizzard has sunk. There is a reason why I loathe the new stuff so much, and it is not just because I have yet to wrap my head around the editor.

It is as plain and simple as this: even if I do dedicate myself in learning the god forsaken editor, the Custom map popularity System makes sure that my maps will never see the light of day.

It is clear that the people behind battle.net 2 have not done their homework, and are simply refusing to look, with both their palms on their eyes, and earplugs in their ears, going "LADEDALALALA" at the predecessor, battle.net 1.
The main reason why people make maps is because they want others to play it. Since you can always create your own game, there will always be people who will play with you the game you want to play as long as you create the opportunity for them. It is also a very elegant system, because only the maps that are good or fun enough that people want to replay will be remade and spread into popularity. Popularity does not need to be calculated, and doesn't require algorithms, or require maps to be featured, or require people to freaking advertise their maps with videos. Popularity stems solely from the map being fun.
Granted that there're shortcomings as well, since single player games, or games like RPGS, where replayability is low, do not do well with this system. But completely ignoring both SC1 AND WC3 battle.net systems is too hard for me to swallow.
And, to add insult to injury, they recently made the once Volatile popularity system (meaning that popularities change over time) has been made rigid, so the popular maps will ALWAYS be on top.

So, as a mapper, you're pretty much fucked from the beginning. Not only is the editor hard as hell to understand, because of its poorly designed Data Editor, and its lack of tutorials and user-friendliness, but any maps you DO manage to cough out are destined to be forgotten.

Just look at Star Strikers, FAC/MTFB/EC, Debates, and Nexus Word Wars. All four maps are brilliant fun, and while I wouldn't say they would be the absolute most popular maps, they're gems, and are games that anyone can appreciate occasionally. But two of these great maps never seen the light of day, and Star Strikers is Losing popularity, as stated from Chirus's recent "What to do now" post on his forums. Debates and NWW suffer even worse outcomes. Both of these maps are fun, but not something that people would continuously play. In other words, they're great to play every so often. Debates eventually died due to it's niche audience, but NWW, hoo-boy. NWW was once a strong and popular map, but because of offensive randomization of words, it was brought down. After it was finally revived, NWW fell into obscurity, especially with the new Rigid popularity System.

So, in essence, NWW died because of its timing. Not because it was a bad game, but because it was re-released at a bad time. This is hardly justifiable, and if the creator was me, I would probably go into an outrage. This is not a good mapping system, and it is evident that the people behind it do not care.

But now, they're spending maybe.. half-an-hour? .. to create an "Official" tutorial along with the patch, and everyone's going ape-shit and saying that "BLizzard DOES CARE OH JOY OH JOY". No, they don't. They did not give us what we Deserved. What we deserved is simply what we HAD back in Battle.net 1, PLUS what we SHOULD get with a NEXT GEN Game. What happened to LAN Support? What about Cross-Region? What happened to those amazing Third Person Shooting and Underground layers in maps? What happened to all those 2D shooters that we were graced with prior to SC2's release? What happened to fucking Chat Channels? Honestly, the chat channels are pieced together by idiots. Simply look at Battle.net 1, and you'll know how much better, aesthetically, it was back then. I don't think I need to say anything more and carefully analyze every facet of the editor to tell you why SC2 sucks. It's been fucking 12 years for gods sakes, and if you can't do better than that, you will have none of my mercy.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 3 2011, 9:24 pm by UnholyUrine.

@UU:
This.


NWW had polish and nice mechanics, but essentially it was just keyboard bashing. And as such it's re-playability level was restricted to that of a fad.

Debates was never released in EU, or if it was, it never got that high on the popularity system for me to notice it. You say so yourself, it catered to a niche target audience/market. Yet it's still Blizzards fault that these maps aren't ranked highly any more? I don't get it.

If you and some friends want to go play NWW or Debates, just search for it and host it yourself. You are not limited to playing what's shown on the popularity rankings.

And as for your maps 'never seeing the light of day'. That's an expected attitude from you however, ironic since you still manage to put the blame on Blizzard for this, instead of your own incompetence at learning the editor.

Go look at SC2Mapsters news board, and see all the brilliant maps which Sixen and other posters showcase on there. It's 2011, get with the times, you can't just publish a map to battle.net and expect it to ride all the way to the #1 spot on its own.

Blizzard are respectable for this tutorial, and still you flame them. If you want a chat channel, go play Habbo Hotel or something, maybe download mIRC. Blizzards one works absolutely fine for chatting to people and joining games.

LAN? Shit, you can have a LAN party already and you don't even have to buy a fucking cable. What's the problem here?

See the post from DevliN.

Edit: Just read that tutorial, it's pretty detailed. ProzaicMuze's sort of told you the basics and let you go off and experiment, this is as the OP says, a pretty good reference.

And on topic with the patch changes: Bout time the Archon became Massive. That thing was useless against anything other than Zergling/Mutalisks. The Pylon change is a bit lulsy. I actually like the Warp Gate change, I even think it should've been made longer . My Protoss V Protoss basically relies on the early aggression to get an advantage before the gate tech finishes, and this change gives more time for that early aggression

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 3 2011, 9:38 pm by Cardinal.

Fun fact: they didn't want LAN support because of piracy, and now there's a pirated version that has LAN support.

Hey Cardinal!

You're back!

-Debates is targeted to a niche audience. But a lot of people will never know the map due to the popularity system. Moreover, b.net1's system will allow such maps to survive. And, anyway, what about Star Strikers and FAC/MTFB/EC? Of the handful of maps that I pay attention to, Left 2 Die and SmashCraft are the only one that still have some weight in them.

-And I am limited to what I want to play because I'm limited to playing with my friends. I don't know how u didn't catch that..?

-For your information, my SC1 map is still as strong as ever. This is so arrogant that even I felt like I should slap myself. But the reason why I said that is b/c if I released an equally well-made map in SC2, it will be way more likely that it will not be played.

-I don't understand why you would prefer to lurk message boards instead of finding out awesome maps and meeting new friends on battle.net instead

-This tutorial is flamed b/c it is hardly anything in comparison to what was neglected back in the release of SC2. I just want to point this out.

-which post?

I realize no matter what any of us tell you, you wont change your mind, but this is getting ridiculous. Seriously. I'm tired of seeing you repeat the exact same arguments about Starcraft 2 being good when you have blindly accepted its massive failures.
See? I can do that too

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 3 2011, 9:52 pm by UnholyUrine.

The one you already responded to, presumably.

UMS / mappers / modders are a niche in themselves. I agree that most of the maps on the popularity system cater for easily an amused 'new' Starcraft 2 generation. And being a mapmaker/modder I tend to view any custom map I play with the harshest of criticism. Which is why I - and most other custom map playing friends of mine - browse forums such as this, SC2Mapster, UDMod, Hiveworkshop and SC2Mod to find maps which are of a quality that don't deserve to be subjected to the harsh 'popularity' system. Even in this way we get around the cross-regional issue - at least the publication side of things - by contacting an American map maker, for example, and offering to host his map on EU.

Starcraft 2 hasn't even been out for a year yet and there are hundreds of absolutely playable custom maps. Within these, there are a handful of 'gems' as you call them, and countless others still in development. Go back to 1999 when Starcraft had only been out for a year, and even with it's infinitely more simple editor, you wouldn't find 'maps' of the quality currently being produced for Starcraft 2. Warcraft 3 had been out for a year before the Frozen Throne expansion was released... Before that map editing was limited at best. DotA (by Eul) was released in 2003 and only achieved the critical mass of success in 2005, two whole years after the release of Frozen Throne.

What I'm getting at here is, Starcraft 2 is still in it's infancy. And the changes implemented in the editor alone are admirable. With two major expansions on the way, things are only going to get a lot better (more units, more models, more effects, more editor changes). With Blizzcon 2011 announced to be including single player test content from Heart of the Swarm. This is exciting because the Wings of Liberty preview was in April 2010 and the game was released 2 months later. Even though no multiplayer content will be previewed in October, it means that Blizzard have enough of the Single Player campaign completed for players to test it out - and the release is penned in for next year some time. Optimistically, that leaves a lot of time for asset creation (models/textures/sounds) and editor improvements.

Wrong. You just can't make an equally well-made map for SC2 because the editor confuses you.

I only come on to check Ahli's diablo progress and I saw this thread and your reply within it. Made me lul.

And since the release of SC2 so much has changed in the editor that makes these tutorials nothing more than a bonus.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 3 2011, 10:13 pm by Cardinal.

Does this apply to maps I've published in the past? Will my Protoss bases be fucked up because of this? Or do I need to update something so that this new power radius applies?

No. Patch updates inflict changes to the multi.dependency. So you should be fine using either the melee dependency which, as far as I know, is the same structurally (balance-wise) as it was on release day.

- Again, I don't know why you accept all of that and still say SC2 is better.... I don't want to hate or point fingers at anyone, but this is as blind as those Conspiracy theorists and Religious activists and terrorists.
Tho, I agree that sc2 is still young, and things will change for the better eventually. The point is, it should've been way better on release.

- Wrong, I just haven't tried... Totally different... right?

- Well that's hardly fair...
I haven't said anything bad about SC2 for a while now.... >:C

- read point 1

The patch changes will apply to all maps that use LibertyMulti dependency.

LOL

I've only heard that there were people emulating a bnet server and achieved that. Then they nearly were sued by Blizzard. Blizzard revoked the sue after every information/code were deleted. Maybe they offered that guy a job.
you can read an article here

So, do gateways now pump just as fast as warpgates, or are they even faster? (ofcourse I'm talking about how consecutive training)
Damn. 12 pool will no long insta KO 30% of Plat-Diamond Protoss players. Then again, this might just make them think they can build/boost another probe than they normally would, which they will sorely regret.

HAHHAHAH! And now the roach follow up is ridonks

Overdue. Don't see terrans getting more than 1 now, like sc1. I also hope to make them regret this.

What specifically can be seen as nerfed by this? Pic/video of abuse? If they can still fit a gateway infront of a cannon, I don't see any difference. I guess now proxy plyon wall warping now needs to be placed right next to the wall/rock, making scouting it easier?

All in all, It's good to be zerg!

Also: I'm going back to lair-creep rushing terran now

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 4 2011, 12:47 am by ClansAreForGays.

Oh, I hadn't heard of that. I was referring to something else, though. The one I heard of is very similar to the old SC2 crack, where you would have a loader and pick a map and it would launch SC2 directly into the map.

The point is, since LAN is possible in pirated copies of SC2, Blizzard should just have LAN support for those who have paid for the game, as well.

Oh no, I'm slightly off-topic! Quick, find a way to connect it back to the OP! LAN support should definitely be included as a future patch (and don't say it's never going to happen, because the same thing was said for Blizzard officially allowing no-cd for SC1).