seems like every game something goes wrong... pretty sure I'm not getting trolled by a drop hacker who changes IP every game, so im thinking it's the map. here's the rundown:

a lot of the time, random people (and I mean random) will drop in the first 3-4 seconds of the came. sometimes 1 person, sometimes 2, sometimes everyone... occasionally I'll be in a game state with 2-3 other people while 2 others drop instantly. sometimes starcraft crashes for me and everyone tells me I dropped when I got back online......

Other times the game proceeds fine, then randomly I will crash.... and I've checked the error logs and they honestly don't apply at all... (giving a hatching unit to a player which cannot happen in this map period, i have triggers to prevent that) and placing units out of bounds, which also can't happen.

On a few occasions the game crashes the moment someone mind controls a unit (to select that country; the only actions that happen then are a map recenter for that player, removing units at the selection area (for that player), and giving units in another location(s) from player 8 (cpu) to the MCing player.)

sigh, I am at a loss here, no idea where to look. I'm currently in a game right now that is proceedingly flawlessly, started with 5 players (including me) and nobody has dropped. sometimes everyone drops with 3 players, sometimes half the players in a full house drop............... i swear my map is insane and just wants to cause me to go crazy too

I really don't have replays or anything since half the time nobody even moves their units before people crash, and I can't get screen shots either...

Review this list: Crashlist
And maybe this one too: List of units that crash starcraft
If you have crash logs, you can post them here: http://www.staredit.net/topic/8610/

A great way to debug the reason for the crashing/dropping is to eliminate certain layers (terrain/unit/doodad/location/triggers) of the game (i.e., delete all triggers, see if it drops people still). Once you narrow it down to what part of the game is causing the issue, you can start removing parts of that component until you've narrowed it down to only a handful of possibilities.

I saw the thread and saved the txt file, it's not that..... I don't even think it applies because the error is:

0x00404500
Caused by: Placing extended unit, or giving a unit that is hatching to another player.

definitely don't have extended units placed by triggers, nor should ANYTHING be hatching that early.

definitely don't have any of the units on that list on my map, I made sure not to put weird things in there. I tested some of the sprites I thought might be causing problems as well, and it's not them (one is a cactus sprite, the other is a doodad sprite for something that looks like a fort, i forget which number it is.


crashlist has a bunch of broken links on it =(





edit: here's the rest of the crash report, didn't realize there was a second entry:

Exception code: C0000005 ACCESS_VIOLATION
Fault address: 0404B827 00:00000000 *unknown*

the search of the crash list for 0404B827 gives 0 results...

those are the only 2 crashes I had error reports for today.




edit#2: i had some locations I didn't need so i deleted them (this is wayyyy back) then to reduce the CCMU i used some locations (that were freed up) to make spawn zones for units.... problem was that i would sometimes get units in a completely different location because some of the triggers still referred to those locations which were far away.... anyway I just fixed that error and I'm wondering if maybe that was the cause? about to test it on Bnet...



edit#3: long story short I now have a trigger to remove the units that are extended, the game didn't drop anyone but no units have portraits, and the game crashes about 30 seconds in or whenever you attempt to change unit portrait settings. (note: the HP % for those units were 100 when i tested, they are down to 1% now, also the valkyries were gone when i tested.... i was in the process of reverting back to the way it was before the remove trigger.)

it also crashes you the moment you try to quit the mission...


edit#doesntmatter: SO i tried to revert back to the way it was, failed repeatedly (was getting the same crashes) then i remember that I had all the CCs somewhere else, and had their hp set to 0 so they would instantly die as the game started.... just tested by myself on bnet, and the portraits are back. Problem is I feel like the desyncs are back as well...... not sure where to go from here.

Attachments:

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Feb 20 2012, 1:30 am by durka_jihad.

The cause of the crash is definitely the extended player units somehow. Not sure what current methods for boosting supply is, but one or more of those extended player units is doing it. I removed them and the map played fine.

EDIT: More specifically, the Command Centers. I removed only those and the map worked fine.

Yea I know they are causing the problem, I need them to do their jobs without causing crashes or desyncs tho... My next step is to replace the CCs with Starports since apparently that's more stable, unfortunately that will throw me into the CCMU realm.... and it took me hella long to get out of that shit-hole

why are you using CCs in the first place? for the supply?

yes: http://www.staredit.net/?p=oldwiki&s=33
I wanted to add 200 to protoss supply limit but I wanted it to be a terran building so it can just burn down if I set the hp to 0, but I replaced the CCs with arbiter tribunal + fleet beacon (total of 400) so it should be all good now... just need to test in the morning

When CCMU is the problem you can kill the extended buildings right at the game start. Their effect will still be present the whole game.

Yea i know.... that's where the issue is arising...... it seems as though killing CC's was causing people to drop, and having a trigger to remove them was removing the unit portraits....

Right now I have no CC's for extended players, instead all the buildings I'm using are at 1 hp and get splashed by a siege tank and killed immediately, the battle cruisers get splashed (also at 1 hp) by valkyries... however someone dropped in both games I played (3 total players, so maybe that player was on a mac? not sure, but I was able to stay in a stable game state with the other player both times)

shrug


edit: let me elaborate; each player gets 13 units at game start (pre-placed upgrade stuff; forges, a pylon, and evo chambers) and 2 units spawn in a location for each player (totalling 15 units for each 7 players) while player 11 has 54 units that sit there and look pretty, 12 has 37 units that are there to be mind controlled, and the computer (player 8) has 1333 units (right now...)

After everyone has selected a country and nobody is able to pick anymore, the game waits and then removes all non-essential buildings for player 8 (ie academies, unit producing buildings, other terran buildings that aren't for combat [except the command center]) so this reduces the unit count (give that it's about 1 minute into the game) by about 300-400? I'm not entirely sure.

This trigger is here to prevent people from selecting a country that has already had its factories and such removed, basically requiring you to make an entire base whereas other people already start with a rax, fact, and starport (for example).

As far as I know, I have only gotten CCMU once and it was a full house, though I didn't actually see anyone lose any units... the message appeared as I selected a country (which is strange because that doesn't create units, just gives units... the only thing it does do other than that is remove the dark archon and observer that it spawns for you... I suppose I should have watched the replay to see what was missing/removed... but oh well.




edit#2: so there are 1529 units assuming 7 players in the map, EXCLUDING units for extended players... that total is 49 units (14 fleet beacons, 7 arbiter tribunals, 7 citadels of adun, and 21 battlecruisers) bringing the grand total to 1578.... that's not really near CCMU range.... I would understand If i tried making 100 zerglings during this but I got the message well after the game started, as I mind controlled a tank thus removing the tank, the DA, and the observer, and giving control of a bunch of preplaced buildings (and units) to me... I always hear different stories as to whether CCMU is 1650 or 1700, but either way I have at least 72 units to work with...

I'm thinking this was an old(er) version where I had 3 CCs for each player rather than 1fleet beacon and 1 tribunal, so that adds 7 units to the total... still a buffer of 65 units, not sure what happened there. Oh I just remembered the valkyries that are in the middle of the map to destroy the battlecruisers also get removed via triggers, so there's another 5-6 units freed up within 2 seconds of game start...

tl;dr im fucking confused man

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Feb 20 2012, 3:24 pm by durka_jihad.

ccmu is at 1700. editors don't let you place more than 1650 (you can change this limit in scmdraft).

One battlecruiser should be enough for anyone, since each one gives 600 supply IIRC. The battlecruisers should destroy themselves since they are unallied. If not, you can set a trigger to kill them.

Clearly your problem is that you are making too many units. Note that hatcheries take 4 units due to larvae, carriers take 9 due to interceptors. Reavers are terrible taking 11. You're focusing too much on the supply side of things. Clearly if you have a need for 800 supply, you've got a way to build units. If you've got a lot of people building units, you're going to get a map max. plain and simple. Minimize the units in the game to the best of your ability, and remember dead units don't count for anything.

I thought dying unit graphics and blood splats counted?

The first frame of death they count (0hp). The actual death animation afterward doesn't and blood splats certainly don't.

I'm pretty sure they do, but remains only last a minute anyway.

CCMU is not an issue... for sure. Carriers have only 4 interceptors for balance and theres only 2 preplaced ones, totaling 10 units... not a big deal. There are only 2 pre-placed reavers as well.

Again, CCMU is not the issue. I know it can cause weird things to happen but I've done the math repeatedly, there's no way my map is CCMUing at the start. In fact I just played a full house and it went flawlessly... I randomly crashed after about 1 minute and 30 seconds (well after the computer's units disappeared, so there were at least 300 units available). It's the same error that I posted in the "why does it crash" thread... and I was using Chaos Launcher so that may have been the cause.

Extended units can be the cause to crash the map even after they are dead/removed because their effect still lingers. The issue is that it's changing more than just supply values. Also Chaos Launcher in combination with that is another uncertainty factor. The only way to find out is extensive testing with/without the launcher.

I figured as much... the crash issue doesn't seem to be that serious, it happens pretty rarely... but the desync issue is still rampant yet random. I just finished a full house about 2 hours ago, then started a game with 6 players and got a desync in the first 15 seconds (game time, not real time)... I saw 2 people instantly drop, then a lag box for 1 player came up. After the countdown I click drop and it drops 3 people, so it's only me left...


edit: The thing I don't understand is how infinity can function perfectly with essentially the same extended supply that I have.. yet I get desyncs seemingly 1 game out of 3 or 4...
would it help if I attached the unprotected infi map?

Bit less scientific than others, but I've seen couple Issue with Starcraft and "recent" OS. I've been trying to figure out if it's actually a possibility in most map, when the "drop/crash" occure. I've came to 1 conclusion so far (others aren't fully tested, but going well). I do know that Windows 7 has color issue, but they also has some Unit sprite + hp combo issue. I don't understand why, or how, but i do know people crash on certain type of game, or when they build/see stuff around.
Best example i can Give you, which work 100% of the time, Terran building any add-ons in 0 sec. It crash any Windows 7 player in the game.

After my topic that haven't been solved yet, relating drop issue, I started to check that out as well. Most of the people that drop use Window XP or Window 7. Fun fact, cuz the only one that doesn't tend to have that issue, is Vista (which tend to be hilarious for me, cuz it's the one that has the most issue).

Loading some kind of "hack" ( thinking about drophack protection ) also tend to crash people more.

Hope this help someone out, it might be the cause, since we all know, Starcraft is originally for Win95 / Win98. It is, what i call, the other side of the Dropissue medal.

Edit:*cough*, i never crashed cuz of that. Another thing, Macs are PCs.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 26 2012, 9:13 pm by sakuckoinvius.

0 second buildings always crash SC on PCs (not on macs).

The problem with advanced stuff like this is that you never know where the problem truly is, and if you do, it's not always cut and dry as to why it's not working. Placing extended units is essentially like using EUD actions, except with EUD actions you know exactly what you're changing. With extended units, you drop buffer overflows all over the place. It would be nice to know exactly where those buffer overflows are, perhaps so we could finally figure out how to recreate the arbiter cloaking field effect, but I don't know if even heinermann knows all about that.

If the map means a lot to you, I suggest re-thinking how you did everything. Do you really need 1500 units on the map at the game start? Can you create a brand new map and get just the supply to work perfectly first without all the units and the triggers/locations?

A lot of times recreating the map will solve the dropping problems. It's a lot of work, but is probably worthwhile in examining how to do. The easiest way of course would be the hex edit your map and copy the relevant sections to the correct place. There are a few programs which can help you to do this, and the scenario.chk format page in the wiki will be indispensable.

Other than that, I suggest you try different units this time, and possibly move them up in the unit array.

yes, i need all those units at the start. the only way around that is to create triggers to make units spawn, problem is that requires a shit load of locations... all of which are used. I literally have no room to work with in terms of locations, that's why i need all those preplaced units. Yes I need extended supply because certain countries get royally fucked in the ass without the extended supply and some feel no effects whatsoever (the ones that create zerg/protoss units or heroes)... nobody enjoys building 3-4 supply depots at the very start of the game just to be able to make 1 extra unit.. it's silly.

A couple friends wanted to 1v1 but one guy always dropped around 5 seconds into the game so i removed all the extended units from the map and let them play that.. it went fine. they were annoying at having to make a shit load of supply depots (and overlords) but there was no dropping, so I know its the extended units.

Still nobody has addressed the fact that infinity has almost the same extended supply as my map, yet it doesn't have anywhere near the desync issues that my map does... in fact I'm pretty sure there have been 0 desyncs on infinity since i started playing that map many years ago... people just don't desync (except mac users).

I'm not about to remake the map when I know the extended units are at fault... but what would moving them up the array change? is it actually worth trying? not that it takes that long... also would it be beneficial to have them at the bottom or top?

edit: what the hell are you talking about? I've played so many games without crashes with 0 second building deaths... I don't know how many times in this thread alone I specifically said that I was able to play a 4 player game all the way through with 0 desyncs and 0 crashes...... yet sometimes I can't even get a 3 player game past 10 seconds in without a desync. the crashes are RARE. not sure what you mean by "always crash sc.." because that's just plain WRONG

0 building time is a problem when you try to build a building or unit with that build time. There is no problem with killing/removing buildings/units that have that build time. There could be issues with terran repair on buildings/units with 0 build time.