My friend says that chat commands (ex., "Type "-help" for tutorial") are annoying and add fake complexity to a map.
I say GUIs (i.e. dialog boxes with buttons/checkmarks/etc.) waste precious screenspace and that typing is generally superior to mouse movement.

Just curious about the general opinion here.

I voted chat commands. Often they're quicker, and are much better for micro than wasting clicks. Having said that, a GUI alternative is a nice feature if it can fit onto a map without being detrimental to the map. This would be best achieved by something like what mike lat is doing, adding an extra menu item at the top with more options there.

mouse gestures !
no, joke

A small icon that displays an help menu (gui) would be much more beginner friendly.

Definitely GUI.
Why? Chat commands can be unclear and some people might forgot some commands AND dialog buttons are quicker to press than typing something like "/order sentry attack location" or whatever you got in mind. As long as you got 1280x1280 or bigger (maybe the resolution is wrong, but something like this) dialogs do not take up too many space, except if the mapmaker made shitloads of them.

But for a map which you expect to be fun enough to play several times (and get to be a not-beginner at), would you prefer chat commands or buttons if you can only have one?

If you're using a triggered interface to give unit commands, then you'd have to have dozens of buttons covering most of the screen and some way to organize them, and for the person to remember how they're organized.
Neither text nor GUI are well-suited to that situation. Also, chat commands can be better compressed ("/senatkloc", for your example).
The only things I can think of them used for, off the top of my head, are requesting information (variables, who's allied, tutorials, etc.) and that Laser Tower Def where cannons are upgraded via dialog (which hotkeys are far superior for anyways). Although if people were more like me, chat commands'd be very common.
Who in the crap has a square display? 5:4 (1280x1024) is the closest I've ever heard of, 4:3 is the old standard and increasingly widescreen is becoming standard, it seems.
A significant number of us, however, still do use 1024x768 or similar screen resolutions.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 29 2010, 9:31 pm by EzDay281.

Chat Commands are better than GUI for 90% of things. Ive been using them in WC3 for many years. They have so much more versatility than GUI. A dialog button can only serve 1 purpose at any given time, and like EzDay281 said, they waste screen space for no reason. the only good use GUI has that I can think of atm is a hero selection screen. But even for a help menu, your better off having the user press F1.

Here are some common uses for chat commands.
-zoom "600" allows the user to specify exactly how far he wants the camera zoomed(GUI can't even attempt this without wasting many buttons)
-ally "player2" allows the user to easily toggle alliances in a Diplo style map
-send "player2" "minerals" "500" this allows the player to transfer exact resource amounts to allies(there is GUI for this in melee games but it is time consuming)
-check,-raise "100",-allin Yes there is a WC3 Texas Hold'em map controlled 100% by chat commands, epic shit.
-if your making your map, you would obviously benefit from having chat based "cheat codes" to tweak certain game features at key times to speed up the testing process
-repick can be used for repicking your hero in an RPG style map

Chat commands ftw. Additional clicks are a problem. You should, however, have a GUI that explains all the various chat commands so that new people have some easy source of information.

This can easily be dealt with by having a message at map start telling the players to use "-help" or similar for a command list. If there are sufficiently many and/or they're poorly named enough that this causes problems, then it's a problem with the map itself, or else a different mechanism (ex. a unit with fifteen commands on its button palette. Two keystrokes for any command, or three if it has menus) would be more appropriate.

Keep in mind guys, that they're going to make the "edit box" dialog item functional in newer versions of the editor. I also see a "slider" item, which could be very useful as well, but I'm not sure if it works as of now.

Also, as you can see in my map entry and UI tutorial, I use little tabs to move key dialogs on and off the screen. They also have hotkeys for quicker use. Screen space taken up? Pfft.

I'd definitely prefer GUI, if you haven't figured that out already...

I prefere GUI, im a visual person. I hate having to take the time to take my hand off the mouse to type something.
If you are concerned about screen space do some sort of command or a small button that hides the big menu. push little button on top right to show or hide the big menu. Thats an idea. What I would really prefere is quick keys on the units for commanding things. Or just quick keys in general.

But what I really think is best is a combination of all three options, that being gui, text commands and quick keys on units. I think you need to keep all types of players in mind when making a map.

Chat commands. If commonly-used commands can be compressed a lot (eg /h instead of /help, or /p instead of /drink potion, or w/e) then that gets rid of the argument about having to take a lot of time to type commands. Look at the (non-SC) game NetHack: It has a gazillion commands, most of which can be accessed with one keystroke, and very few of which are easy to forget.

I think the best would be to have both. The player could be able to toggle to GUI and every button would also have a chat command, that way, everyone are happy.

Maps need to be beginner friendly. GUI.

This.

how about both? for gui, a tiny button with a roll out.

Well, I have a new suggestion, make it vocal also, that way we don't lose time clicking or writing.
Why look back in the past when we can look forward?

That's why I can type with only my left hand. My right hand doesn't leave the mouse unless I'm typing a lot. Just keep the commands more left-hand oriented and that will make it even easier (assuming that I'm weird in using the whole keyboard with my left hand).

Chat commands are a good choice but gui commands are better if you can make it so it doesn't interfere with the map

Compromise and add both

It would depend on what kind of map you're making. If it's something for noobs to play several times a day (Blood Pressure Marathon) it would be better to have GUI (new players can learn faster). If it's something that would take more than 20-30 minutes to play (diplos, longer RPGs), chat commands are the way to go.