So my friend and I from school have been taking some cool classes together. We are deeply interested in the near future of America and the world. We have come to understand that massive change will occur through revolution or some sort of conflict between nations due to an unstable world population, global climate shift (I can discuss this more fully if someone opens a topic on it, otherwise for the sake of this thread, assume that there will be a global climate shift) and lack of agriculture to keep the world fed.

We have started a club, some may call a cult, or a terrorist organization. We have not established one single name for our organization, but things thought up have been "The Guild" (I think this was a joke), "The Cruffington", among many other names. Our goal is to ready ourselves for the change our planet will undoubtedly experience.
We are preparing ourselves to live off the land, through making shelter, gathering food, etc.
We are both maintain levels of physical and mental fitness. For without being healthy and constantly updated, we, humans, become lazy and ignorant.
We are training to be rebels, whether attacking a corrupt power structure politically or stealthily.
We accomplished our first mission.
I will leave out names and places so know one finds us out.

Our Story:
Our private school has a campus located at the bottom of a small valley. A creek runs through the valley. The school had long wished to utilize the stream for multiple projects for students and as a model to use hydro electric power. However, the stream had been dammed upstream by a family that owns a residential house building company. This company built and sold many of the houses in the area. Naturally, living in a somewhat richer community, the family holds a significant amount of political clout and taking them to court over the illegal damming they have would take way too long to go through the courts.

My partner and I have recruited another member for this specific mission. We blew up the damn dam.
We had done similar things many a times as practice, we would dress in all dark clothes and sneak around residential areas for practice. This time we went up the valley and found the property. It must have been 2:30 AM. We found the dam and used a small homemade explosive at a weak point on the dam. A big chunk broke off with our help after the detonation. (I am compelled to mention, our explosive sucked, it was mostly a joke) The stream runs much better than it did and we seemed to have damaged it enough to keep water flowing to keep a pond at school.


Tell me what you think of our group and our goals.
What I mainly want to know is, Do you think we sound like a dangerous group? Can you understand what kind of goals we have in mind? Was our first mission a good example of what we may want to fight for on a larger scale in the future?

Keep in mind when replying: I am one hundred percent serious about this. My friend and I plan to keep this going and to recruit many more to the cause. He and I like to think of it as a fight club with more humane(?) goals.

I too believe that we humans will suffer greatly due to the toll we are taking on the environment. I've also entertained the notion of deliberately throwing a kink in the infrastructure to slow down development. When I hear of birthrates falling, I'm actually glad to hear it. (Many of you know that I have a young son. How can I have a child and say such a thing? Well, I'll leave that to you.)

If you honestly don't care about any potential legal ramifications, then there's not much I can say to discourage you. I do have one question though. In the event one of your deeds results in human death, would you be able to live with that? I believe that for the planet's welfare, billions of dead humans is probably a good thing. But as a human being, I can't bring myself to feel good about the idea of people killing people for nature's sake. Where do you stand on this?

(lol, more like 2 questions)

My comrade and i have discussed this and came to the same conclusions.
Our Environmental Science teacher questioned us, "Which would you rather have, A man die in the making of a dam that has virtually no carbon emissions, or Coal plants and gasoline powered cars that will lead to mutilation of the earth's ecosystems and massive death".

We do both believe at this point it will be inevitable that we encounter mass human death in the next 100 years due to the results of our unstable societies. Our workings however, if we do end up with blood on our hands, will ideally be for the greater good. We doubt our efforts will yield any disheartening results until it would become absolutely necessary.

We are still unsure whether or not we would be feeling the same way after it happen if or when it does.

I've never thought of slowing development, because as long as it's developing peacefully, nothing's wrong with development...

I don't really see anything wrong with what you're doing - just ask that you try to be very careful not to kill anybody. Stopping a couple of rich folks from ruining the environment is different then killing them. Other then that.. don't get caught, and try to make it seem like it's more then hooligans doing it for the heck of it. Try to somehow leave a message.

I've stumbled upon this idea one day after googling Survivorman. I found a forum where people discuss survival and stuff and living on their own without any outside help in preparation for any big disaster or something.

Post has been edited 8 time(s), last time on Nov 13 2007, 5:07 am by devilesk.

No such thing. Killing people is wrong, regardless of the cause or outcomes.

Now as for your organization. It is illegal, destructive, and dangerous.
I like it. It is about fucking time someone decides to take a stand.

Not to try to relate this example with yenku's actions, but for an extremely exagerated one...
So, assume that Hitler was the sole cause of the Holocaust. If someone who existed, at the time Hitler performs X action that leads to the event, knew all this with certainty, were given a gun and position, one day before X action, and had no other means of affecting the situation, it would be wrong to kill Hitler?
Again, this example is intended to be exagerated as much as I could get it without much effort, not to be realistic.

I think most people would kill Hitler, lol.

An example I like better came from an episode of M*A*S*H. A couple dozen people have to hide from enemy soldiers as they march near their position. They hide in this old, rundown bus. They can hear the soldiers marching nearer, and one of the people in the bus has a baby, which starts to cry. The main guy (I forget his name) tells her to keep the kid quiet. She puts a blanket over the baby's face, and ends up suffocating it. So everyone else gets to live on, but the baby had to die in order for that to happen. At what point can a moral person objectively decide that certain lives (even if they aren't intending to cause trouble) must be destroyed for the benefit of others? How can you predict if you are right or not? Is killing that one person instead of seeing many others die worth it? You might be able to say so from a distance, but what if that one person was you or someone you cared about?

One cannot accuse people of actions they have not yet committed. It isn't for I to judge who lives and dies.

I unfortunatly agree with you Yenku. The first wars over water will occur by 2020, and we won't be able to support Earth with the current water supply and birth rates, unless we expand across Sol System. I'm glad that China is attempted to enforce Birth Rates, it needs to be done.

Yenku: How big was the dam?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 13 2007, 8:18 am by WoAHorde.

You guys sound a little like the sort of people who do French revolutions. Good intentions, but you have no real control, just an aim. That is to say, you might succeed in starting a revolution, but, like the French, you would just end up with more death and chaos.

The problem is, revolutions don't work unless you have a planned structure and a population willing to go through with it. You have neither, and if your organization somehow grew, it still wouldn't.

Eco-terrorists? More like vigilantes (not really, more like do whatever-you-want-ees?). It seems to me that your blowing up stuff at your own discretion, against people you feel wronged you, not for eco reasons.

Also, if you want to stay safe, go to China. No joke.


Edit: WoaHorde: I really don't like how you state random facts with absolutely no backup or reasoning. Methinks....
There is no world power capable of starting a war that would have problems with water. There's a lot more of it than you think.
Also, for the solar system idea. I'm confident that we will never do so. The whole concept is flawed. Spend massive resources and go to Mars to get.... water? Right. It's not worth it to try to colonize another planet, it'd be more direct and more economic to send a colony to the bottom of the ocean. At least they'd have food.

You fail to realize that water is becoming scarce and wars will be fought over it. The largest asteroid in the asteroid belt contains more fresh water than on Earth. Your disapprovement of the space program is the mentality that prevented us to get to Mars by now. We would not use Mars or Luna for water import, but for a stabilization of Human population.

So do you enjoy posting these things on public forums? Do you just post for show, maybe an attempt to recruit others? I would like to know more about this dam... Did it actually serve a useful purpose, or was it intended to just clear land for real estate or whatever?

I may have skimmed that post in a completely arbitrary order (not saying I didn't. ... It's how I read dammit! ) and missed this... but what is your exact goals?

China failed at it too. Even though a family can only put one child into the family tree, they failed to see that most people would like to give birth to a son rather than a daughter, because it is tradition for them for a son to carry on its family names. It's statistically easier to give birth to a female than a male. Some would keep reproducing until they have a boy. Its epic fail.

I've never heard of that before.

It has something to do with the X chromosome being stronger than the Y. If I remember correctly, it's a 52% for a girl, and 48 for a boy.

All I have to say is, yenku...try to keep out of trouble.

^He's a self described terrorist. He will try not to keep out of trouble. Until he finds something better to do with his time.


Woahorde, I'd love to argue with you further, but that'd be off topic. Feel free to post in the topic I just made for that.

That's the trick. We know that what we do must have a rational reason.

The dam was probably 6 meters across, we're talking very small.

We are in the midst of making ourselves a title and a statement to explain aims. We are in no position to start a revolution, yet. We understand we will need to plan things much larger scale with definitive and clear values and goals. I'm quite positive at the moment that we would not necessarily overthrow the government. We do however wish to persuade public opinion towards change in government through policy change and better party systems.

We sent multiple anonymous letters to the CEO of the business to kindly take down his dam. We could probably give him another to let him know (If he really hasn't figured it out) why it was done.

I post this here because we need help creating our group. We have only 4 people totally briefed and who understand our purpose. Discussion like this helps us figure out how to put a statement together for our group so we do have clear objectives rather than a "vigilante" group looking purpose.

For those of you who want to know, he had the damn up to create his own pond (it was really big for the size of the stream). He probably knows why his dam was destroyed, in fact you made me realize I could give him another anonymous letter.

So, I guess once me and my buddy get this all together we are going to selectively begin inviting trusted friends after explaining out group in full. It will be clear to our opposition why we do what we do.
The first person we went to for an actual member was one of our very well trusted teachers. We had him for really cool classes and he wants to do drugs with me at somepoint I think.
He was totally into it. When we explained to him in person what our group is all about, he was psyched and helped us plan the dam thing.

I won't get involved in illegal activities, unless it is service to others.