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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Jan 7 2016, 6:40 am
By: Corbo
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Jan 7 2016, 6:40 am Corbo Post #1

ALL PRAISE YOUR SUPREME LORD CORBO

By now I assume pretty much everyone that can afford going to a theatre has seen it. In the world. So let's talk!


I am not a huge fan of the saga itself, other than the 6 movies and a couple of star wars games I don't know much about whatever is canon and what isn't. So in my limited knowledge I thought it was pretty good.

I really enjoyed it and was *just* talking about it with Farty.

I felt that it had a similar structure to A New Hope, which I think was to be expected, I bet they wanted to play it a bit safe, because the film had such high expectations to be met. Felt very nostalgic and was really exciting in my opinion.

Kylon Ren seems like a much more darker character to me than whatever we see from Darth Vader. I find that amusing. We see Kylo Ren not caring about a whole village, torturing lots of people with the force, with anger management issues and lastly deceiving his father in order to kill him.

I felt that the characters were designed so that people could immediately love them. They're all likeable, which sometimes can make them predictable and be a little flat but overall I think it had enough character development.


Starkiller base was epic. Making a whole planet and turning it into a mobile deathly weapon is a neat idea. I didn't much like the symbolism with the "first order", though. I think the whole nazi-dystopic dictatorship-like stuff has already been worn out and felt they could have been a bit more creative with this but I didn't care much for that.

BB8 is <3

Rey is <3 <3

Finn + Poe was ok.

With the exception of Han Solo and Chewie I didn't care much for a lot of old characters coming back. Sure they exist and they should exist but maybe as a high rank figure we never see. I know Luke's a plot for the next movies but meh. Who cares?


I felt the movie did good to the saga. I really liked it and plan to go watch it again in a bigger screen, IMAX or something.



fuck you all

Jan 7 2016, 4:26 pm Sacrieur Post #2

Still Napping

It was 6/10 as far as SW goes. Too close to Lucas's vision.



None.

Jan 7 2016, 5:03 pm Oh_Man Post #3

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

I rate it 10/10, 9/10 if I'm being critical.

I have no problems with the similarities with A New Hope because this film had to serve as both a sequel and a reboot, so having callbacks was necessary.

I want to know what you guys think about the BB8 Lighter scene. I think he was returning Finn's thumbs-up, but some of my friends claim that he was actually flipping Finn off.

My biggest disappointment was not enough Luke. I just hope he has a big part in the next movie.




Jan 7 2016, 5:11 pm JCarrill0 Post #4

BattleTag: JCarrill0#1742

What?! they made a new star wars movie?
What?! Han Solo dies?
What?! Luke had kids?
What?! The original Sith Lord before the Emperor is still alive and made his hologram so big people think he is a giant?

Well good thing I'm a Trekkie then. I can;t wait to see the new one.

Wait... what do you mean they are directed by the same person? Damn you JJ Abrams! *Shakes fist*

PS - Don't read above it contains spoilers. unless you read this part last in which case you already read the spoiler, oops my bad.




Jan 7 2016, 5:58 pm Corbo Post #5

ALL PRAISE YOUR SUPREME LORD CORBO

Quote from Oh_Man
I want to know what you guys think about the BB8 Lighter scene. I think he was returning Finn's thumbs-up, but some of my friends claim that he was actually flipping Finn off.

I think he was just giving him a thumbs-up too. I hadn't considered it being a flip off that would be hilarious too :P


Regarding to luke, I think he'll have even less screentime in the next movies :P It will be just like "ya, I'm rey a jedi master now, Luke trained me GG" I think he was a very expensive actor to bring for just a few seconds of screentime.

He will definitely be on the next movie, though.



fuck you all

Jan 7 2016, 6:04 pm JCarrill0 Post #6

BattleTag: JCarrill0#1742

Quote from Corbo
Quote from Oh_Man
I want to know what you guys think about the BB8 Lighter scene. I think he was returning Finn's thumbs-up, but some of my friends claim that he was actually flipping Finn off.

I think he was just giving him a thumbs-up too. I hadn't considered it being a flip off that would be hilarious too :P


Regarding to luke, I think he'll have even less screentime in the next movies :P It will be just like "ya, I'm rey a jedi master now, Luke trained me GG" I think he was a very expensive actor to bring for just a few seconds of screentime.

He will definitely be on the next movie, though.
I never thought he was flipping them off either, hmm that would of been funny.

as for Lukes screentime... even less? wow what would be the point to have even less in the next one? seems like more is well warranted.




Jan 7 2016, 6:33 pm Oh_Man Post #7

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

I want Luke to be the new Yoda. And I also want to see a demonstration of his force powers.





Jan 7 2016, 8:10 pm Fire_Kame Post #8

a left leaning coexistence nut

Berkly had already seen it once but I went with him last night to see it. As we we standing in line to get the tickets I looked at him and said "you know, I don't think I like Star Wars."

So we left and got hot tea/cocoa instead.

Maybe when it comes out on video I'll see it.




Jan 7 2016, 9:07 pm Lanthanide Post #9



BB8 was definitely flipping him off. I don't know how you could even see it as 'thumbs up'. Finn had just tricked BB8 into giving up the location of the 'rebel' base and was pissed at having to do it.

I enjoyed the movie a lot - as a generic adventure movie the first half of it was done really well (ignoring the space squids that Han had, they were just stupid).

Second half of the movie was full of plot holes and silliness though. The whole situation of there being a Republic that were supporting 'rebels' didn't make sense, nor was it very clear who the First Order actually were (obviously they're the remnant of the empire, but how many systems do they control, are there other remnants, how long had they been a cohesive force, etc). Either the Republic is the legitimate government, or it's not. If they're at war with the First Order, they would have a fleet/army of their own, not have to support 'rebels'. Being a re-hash of A New Hope was pretty meh, I can understand why they did it and I'm ok with it, but they'll definitely have to do something new in the next movie.

The use of the starkiller weapon also just didn't make sense. In order for the weapons fire to be visible during the day like that from Maz's planet, the planets would all have to be in the same solar system, and I don't think they were. Also Maz was effectively "yellow Yoda".



None.

Jan 7 2016, 9:51 pm Corbo Post #10

ALL PRAISE YOUR SUPREME LORD CORBO

Quote from Lanthanide
The use of the starkiller weapon also just didn't make sense. In order for the weapons fire to be visible during the day like that from Maz's planet, the planets would all have to be in the same solar system, and I don't think they were. Also Maz was effectively "yellow Yoda".


So you don't think it can simultaneously be day on two planets at the same time in the universe?

I get what you're saying and you're right, the weapon was designed to GG planets from an entire different star system but all planets in every solar system in the universe have both day and night at the same time.

Yes, it is a coincidence that it was also daytime in that half of the planet where they were in that solar system when the weapon was fired, though.



fuck you all

Jan 7 2016, 9:53 pm Roy Post #11

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Lanthanide
BB8 was definitely flipping him off. I don't know how you could even see it as 'thumbs up'. Finn had just tricked BB8 into giving up the location of the 'rebel' base and was pissed at having to do it.
BB-8 was not tricked into giving up the location of the Alliance base.

BB-8 was put in a position where he could either call Finn out as a liar or go along with what he says. BB-8 literally turns back and forth to decide between these two possible options. He chooses the latter, and there's significantly less animosity between the two after they share that moment; it's effectively their bonding scene. You could argue that perhaps he was weighing the consequences of defying Finn at this point in time, but this interpretation falls apart when they are united with Han Solo and Chewie.

From a cinematographic standpoint, had BB-8 meant to be flipping Finn off, BB-8 would have made some sort of deep noise to signify disapproval, and/or it would cut to Finn changing his facial expression from positive to negative, and/or BB-8 would have left the area after displaying his disapproval. It would have increased tensions between the two, and BB-8 would have continued a distrustful attitude toward Finn. This is demonstrably not the case as shown throughout the following scene, where BB-8 willingly shows the map to Han Solo in front of Finn, even though at that point if there wasn't any trust in Finn, revealing BB-8's suspicions when Finn could easily be taken down or captured would have been the only logical course of action.

The fact that the scene strengthened their relationship and stifled the conflict between them makes it obvious that it was a reciprocating gesture, not a hostile one.

TL;DR: It was definitely a thumbs up.




Jan 8 2016, 12:10 am Lanthanide Post #12



Quote from Corbo
So you don't think it can simultaneously be day on two planets at the same time in the universe?
Um, no. I'm saying that in order to see something in the sky during the day, it needs to be very bright AND very close by.

Quote from Roy
The fact that the scene strengthened their relationship and stifled the conflict between them makes it obvious that it was a reciprocating gesture, not a hostile one.
No, it means it was the last moment of defiance, leading to capitulation. As in: I still don't like you, but I have no other choice but to go along with what you want.

Also showing the map with Han present and in front of Finn doesn't prove anything - the situation has changed, Finn has (through sheer dumb luck) introduced BB8 to another person who seems capable of getting in touch with the rebels, and who says that he was a friend of Luke's.

Finally, it's simply far funnier if it's a flip-off rather than a thumb's up.

Youtube clip here, you have to watch at 2x speed:


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 8 2016, 12:17 am by Lanthanide.



None.

Jan 8 2016, 12:48 am Oh_Man Post #13

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

But as Roy said, it's not like he had no choice. He DID have a choice:

Quote
BB-8 was put in a position where he could either call Finn out as a liar or go along with what he says.

Even the video you linked says thumbs up.




Jan 8 2016, 12:57 am Roy Post #14

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Lanthanide
No, it means it was the last moment of defiance, leading to capitulation. As in: I still don't like you, but I have no other choice but to go along with what you want.
But BB-8 did have a choice. Finn is holding no cards at this point: it was already demonstrated that Rey can floor him, so he's not even in a position of power. The only possible reasoning would be that they need him to operate the ship (they don't - Ren is the pilot and the turret is damaged), and even that comes apart as soon as Han Solo appears.

If BB-8 was still defiant, the initial encounter with Han Solo would have shown that.

Quote from Lanthanide
Also showing the map with Han present and in front of Finn doesn't prove anything - the situation has changed, Finn has (through sheer dumb luck) introduced BB8 to another person who seems capable of getting in touch with the rebels, and who says that he was a friend of Luke's.
Unless BB-8 was convinced encountering Han Solo was the work of Finn, nothing actually has changed. There's still this liar with a stolen jacket coercing BB-8 into cooperating while deceiving everyone else. Revealing secret plans to the enemy is off the table, and if BB-8 cannot trust Finn at this point, the map would not be shown.

As an alternate approach, they could have had Finn located somewhere else while BB-8 revealed the plans to Han Solo, but that would have been tricky given the situation, and it would also beg the question of why BB-8 still hasn't mentioned anything regarding the mischievous beguiler who wears the clothing of a friend presumed to be recently deceased.

The fact is BB-8's behavior toward Finn changes at this point. If we interpret it as a last act of defiance, then BB-8 is sabotaging himself and his mission by cooperating with Finn unnecessarily in future scenes. If we interpret it as BB-8 making the decision to trust Finn, everything BB-8 does in subsequent scenes makes rational sense.

Quote from Lanthanide
Finally, it's simply far funnier if it's a flip-off rather than a thumb's up.
Headcanon is fine, and I won't take that away from you. I'm just describing the actual purpose of the scene, which is to bond the two characters.

Edit: Ninja'd.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 8 2016, 1:24 am by Roy.




Jan 8 2016, 1:07 am Lanthanide Post #15



Quote from Roy
Quote from Lanthanide
No, it means it was the last moment of defiance, leading to capitulation. As in: I still don't like you, but I have no other choice but to go along with what you want.
But BB-8 did have a choice. Finn is holding no cards at this point.
BB-8 is the only one who knows where the base is. His mission is to get back to the rebel base. He's on a ship, with two people he doesn't trust (he refused to tell Rey anything because it was classified). He has no choice but to tell them where the base is. What is the alternative, they just float around in space with no goal? Get picked up by the First Order?

Quote
Revealing secret plans to the enemy is off the table, and if BB-8 cannot trust Finn at this point, the map would not be shown.
You don't seem to understand what I mean by "last act of defence, leading to capitulation". He *does* trust Finn after this point, but gets in a final parting shot of the finger.

Quote from Roy
Headcanon is fine, and I won't take that away from you. I'm just describing the actual purpose of the scene, which is to bond the two characters.
Yes, and when it's a flipping off and not a lame 'thumbs up', they are still bonding.



None.

Jan 8 2016, 1:11 am Oh_Man Post #16

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

Quote
BB-8 is the only one who knows where the base is. His mission is to get back to the rebel base. He's on a ship, with two people he doesn't trust (he refused to tell Rey anything because it was classified). He has no choice but to tell them where the base is. What is the alternative, they just float around in space with no goal? Get picked up by the First Order?
But the situation BB8 is in is not Finn's fault. Finn is actually trying to help him. So why would BB8 flip him off for that?

I think you really have to bend over backwards to make the flip-off theory work, whereas the thumbs-up theory just fits naturally with everything. Ockham's razor, my friend.




Jan 8 2016, 1:13 am Corbo Post #17

ALL PRAISE YOUR SUPREME LORD CORBO

Quote from Lanthanide
Quote from Corbo
So you don't think it can simultaneously be day on two planets at the same time in the universe?
Um, no. I'm saying that in order to see something in the sky during the day, it needs to be very bright AND very close by.


No it does not. It just needs to be very bright. Do you think our sun is close? :lol:

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 8 2016, 2:39 am by Roy.



fuck you all

Jan 8 2016, 1:22 am Lanthanide Post #18



Quote from Corbo
Quote from Lanthanide
Quote from Corbo
So you don't think it can simultaneously be day on two planets at the same time in the universe?
Um, no. I'm saying that in order to see something in the sky during the day, it needs to be very bright AND very close by.

No it does not. It just needs to be very bright. Do you think our sun is close? :lol:
Um, yeah, that's my point. The sun is very close - it's within our solar system. And actually, as far as stars go, the sun is actually not very bright at all. It only appears bright to use because of its closeness (compared to all other stars in the universe).

My whole point is that unless all of those planets are in the same solar system, the weapons fire would not show up during the day. Also if these planets are light years apart, it would take years for the weapons fire to appear in the sky...

Quote from Oh_Man
Quote
BB-8 is the only one who knows where the base is. His mission is to get back to the rebel base. He's on a ship, with two people he doesn't trust (he refused to tell Rey anything because it was classified). He has no choice but to tell them where the base is. What is the alternative, they just float around in space with no goal? Get picked up by the First Order?
I think you really have to bend over backwards to make the flip-off theory work, whereas the thumbs-up theory just fits naturally with everything. Ockham's razor, my friend.
No, I'm not doing any bending at all. I saw it in the theatre and assumed (like many others) that he was flipping Finn off. I didn't sit there in the movie and carefully try and work out what was going on to decide whether it was a flipping off or a thumbs up.

It's *funnier* as a flip off anyway. The moment was clearly to be played as a joke.

Quote
But the situation BB8 is in is not Finn's fault.
BB-8 only trusted Finn at all because he said he was in the resistance, and in this scene Finn's just revealed to BB-8 that he was lying the whole time. So it is Finn's fault that BB-8 is now in this situation.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 8 2016, 1:36 am by Lanthanide.



None.

Jan 8 2016, 1:52 am Roy Post #19

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Lanthanide
BB-8 is the only one who knows where the base is. His mission is to get back to the rebel base. He's on a ship, with two people he doesn't trust (he refused to tell Rey anything because it was classified). He has no choice but to tell them where the base is. What is the alternative, they just float around in space with no goal? Get picked up by the First Order?
First we should clear up that while BB-8 doesn't tell Rey anything, he has shown trusting behavior toward her, probably because she rescued him and resisted temptation when offered to sell him. BB-8 certainly trusts her more than Finn, though leaking information unnecessarily is against BB-8's prerogative.

In the thumbs up version, BB-8 is deliberating whether or not to trust Finn and reveal the location of the base, or to distrust Finn and inform Rey that he has been lying about everything. Revealing the location of the base itself is as trivial of a consideration as you point it out to be. The difficult choice is if it should be revealed before dealing with an untrustworthy Finn, or to accept Finn as trustworthy. If BB-8 decided Finn wasn't trustworthy, it would have been as easy as saying "That's classified information" in response, which would force the conversation back onto Finn.

In your version, what is BB-8 deliberating?

Quote from Lanthanide
You don't seem to understand what I mean by "last act of defence, leading to capitulation". He *does* trust Finn after this point, but gets in a final parting shot of the finger.
I suppose I don't understand why compliance implies trust. If you're saying BB-8 had no choice but to reveal the base, why would he sacrifice the choices he does have later on? What makes him capitulate? Having to reveal the location of the base? If so, capitulation has occurred before the thumbs up comes out, and being a machine it is acceptable that it is processed instantaneously.

You bring up a good point with BB-8 not revealing information to Rey, always saying "It's classified". His goal is to return the map to the base, and when Han Solo appears, it is a means of reaching that goal. There is no reason to cooperate with either Rey or Finn at this point, and instead BB-8 can just request Han to get him to the base, and perhaps to detain the two miscreants that obtained this secret information. So why does BB-8 not address any of this? Why does he reveal this classified information to not only Han (who belongs to the resistance) but to Rey and Finn as well? The thumbs up scene says it all: BB-8 makes the decision to trust them.

Quote from Lanthanide
Yes, and when it's a flipping off and not a lame 'thumbs up', they are still bonding.
"Bonding" means uniting. I don't know a culture that considers flipping people off as a welcoming gesture.

Quote from Lanthanide
BB-8 only trusted Finn at all because he said he was in the resistance, and in this scene Finn's just revealed to BB-8 that he was lying the whole time. So it is Finn's fault that BB-8 is now in this situation.
From what I remember, BB-8 was unconvinced that Finn was part of the resistance, and that's part of the reason why Finn came clean. Had BB-8 been cooperative with Finn, Finn could have instructed BB-8 to reveal the location of the base without having to admit he wasn't part of the resistance.

Besides, it's a Disney film. A middle finger is a little racey.




Jan 8 2016, 1:57 am Oh_Man Post #20

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

F this. I can clearly see this thumbs up/flip off situation is like blue/white dress situation lol. I am going to wait patiently for JJ to put his foot down on this hopefully. Or maybe he's sadistic and will leave us speculating for years to come. :P




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