Staredit Network > Forums > Technology & Computers > Topic: Roy's Second Computer
Roy's Second Computer
Aug 7 2015, 10:29 pm
By: Roy  

Aug 7 2015, 10:29 pm Roy Post #1

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Completed Build:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor (Purchased For $141.58)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (Purchased For $14.99)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97M-HD3 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (Purchased For $59.31)
Memory: Mushkin Stealth 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For $137.99)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 4GB Superclocked ACX 2.0 Video Card (Purchased For $374.98)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case (Purchased For $79.99)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $79.99)
Total: $888.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-27 15:19 EST-0500

Requirements:
  • $1200 soft cap, $1500 max budget
  • Minimum 8GB RAM
  • 500GB+ SSD, no HDD
  • Front panel USB 3
  • Optimized for gaming
  • All parts purchased by December 2015



Example Skylake Path

Example Haswell Path



Calling out everyone who helped with my previous build: CecilSunkure, ShadowFlare, DevliN, Zycorax, rockz, Aristocrat, Sacrieur, NudeRaider, Excalibur, even Lanthanide and Jack a bit there - thank you all. The computer is still going strong, but I'm giving it away. As a result, I need a new machine. But this time it's going to be a bit different: rather than longevity and future-proofing, I'm looking for a solid rig that I won't feel bad about incrementally upgrading a year or two from now.

This won't strictly be just a "give me a part list" topic (though you're free to do so): as you can see, I have the rest of the year to collect parts, so I'll be scoping out deals as they come by (I have already picked up a PSU, as you can see from the template). This topic is going to be more focused on the foreseeable future in technology, and there are many things I think would be great for the community to discuss in helping me decide what to do.



Some of my rationale is detailed below. Feel free to give your two cents on anything!

(CPU/Mobo/RAM) Skylake vs Haswell
(HSF) A Cooler Cooler
(SSD) Your Storage Is Bad and You Should Feel Bad
(GPU) Looks Like We Could Fit a 980Ti Somewhere Here...
(Case) I Rest My Case
(PSU) Power Supply'd


Post has been edited 13 time(s), last time on Dec 27 2015, 8:59 pm by Roy.




Aug 8 2015, 2:41 am Lanthanide Post #2



How much storage does your current computer use?

I think, even with SSD prices coming down, getting a 1 TB drive now, if you use less than 500GB right now, is a waste of money.



None.

Aug 8 2015, 2:59 am Excalibur Post #3

The sword and the faith

How important is optical to you? Personally I haven't had an optical drive in my build for over a year as I am currently using an NZXT H440. I haven't missed it either.

Main path: I want you to think back a bit, back all the way to the P55 / X58 chipset days. I was fortunate enough to own a DFI LP DK X58 with an i7 920 @ 4GHz and 12GB of DDR3 1600 in a 3x4GB triple channel configuration way back when. I had DDR3 and triple channel at a time where most gamers were still limited to DDR2/dual channel and I paid the premium because I wanted that cutting edge tech. I bought into a platform with a lot of longevity and though I paid more it lasted me longer. To me to go DDR4 and not go X99 just doesn't make sense. The prices per gig are not where they need to be and unless you need the epeen or extra cores X99 can provide you with I really see no reason to go for it. Especially with respectable DDR3 kits going to 5$/gig. When it comes to DDR4, go big (X99) or go home (stay away until prices drop).


CPU Cooler: I'll never trust a stock Intel push-pin style cooler, but you probably don't need to break the bank over here. Any budget performance cooler like a Hyper 212 (Evo, ect) or other that you listed should do you fine. I'd let cash be king in this area and just go for what gets the job done for the lowest price based off sales at time of purchase.

Case and cosmetics: Preferences on color scheme / inclusion of a window? If there is no window do you care if the internals color coordinate? I find I'm doing a lot more window builds for friends lately and thus a few extra dollars usually end up going on getting parts that match each other. Personally I'm looking at the InWin 909 for my next build. Its going to have type-C and if you like it as much as I do you may want it as well. I believe its due out in the next month or so. There are a couple smaller variants already available but we may have to go down to mATX.

Storage: No EVOs. No. Stop. Bad. Don't make me get the newspaper. The Pros are nice because they don't have the issues the EVOs have had, but unless you really need the speed a Crucial/Micron can give you everything you need at a lower price and/or higher capacity. All this you seem to be aware of. Personally I'd grab one of the Crucial offerings in the size you want and enjoy the future that is non-mechanical storage.

GPU: I really am not a 970 fan for the memory issue that you're already aware of. 1080p-acceptable or not, as a consumer I find it unacceptable to make the compromise that was made on this card. Personally I'd go with a 980/Ti depending on budget. We'll see where I get after I get answers from you. :P

Good job on the PSU. In my personal preferences I'm a SeaSonic fanboy, but any platform that can deliver solidly with good efficiency is alright with me. I think you've got a pretty good idea of what goes on with PSUs, so no surprises there.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Aug 8 2015, 4:11 am Vrael Post #4



Guys I might actually be able to buy a new computer sometime in the next year too!!! You know that dual-channel DDR2 stuff you were just talking about Ex? Yeah thats what's in my current machine.



None.

Aug 8 2015, 6:06 am Lanthanide Post #5



Quote from Excalibur
Storage: No EVOs. No. Stop. Bad. Don't make me get the newspaper. The Pros are nice because they don't have the issues the EVOs have had, but unless you really need the speed a Crucial/Micron can give you everything you need at a lower price and/or higher capacity. All this you seem to be aware of. Personally I'd grab one of the Crucial offerings in the size you want and enjoy the future that is non-mechanical storage.
I've got an 840 EVO which apparently suffers from the performance issue. Haven't noticed any problems at all.

Also that problem shouldn't affect the 850.



None.

Aug 8 2015, 12:15 pm Roy Post #6

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Lanthanide
How much storage does your current computer use?

I think, even with SSD prices coming down, getting a 1 TB drive now, if you use less than 500GB right now, is a waste of money.
I'm using around 400GB at the moment, with almost every game and program I have installed. That still gives me room for another 7 larger games or whatnot to stay under 500GB, and considering I only really get a new game once or twice every year, it seems manageable.

Quote from Excalibur
How important is optical to you? Personally I haven't had an optical drive in my build for over a year as I am currently using an NZXT H440. I haven't missed it either.
Personally, an optical drive is useless to me almost entirely, and I don't think I'll miss it. That's why I'm considering cases without 5.25" drives.

Quote from Excalibur
Main path: I want you to think back a bit, back all the way to the P55 / X58 chipset days. I was fortunate enough to own a DFI LP DK X58 with an i7 920 @ 4GHz and 12GB of DDR3 1600 in a 3x4GB triple channel configuration way back when. I had DDR3 and triple channel at a time where most gamers were still limited to DDR2/dual channel and I paid the premium because I wanted that cutting edge tech. I bought into a platform with a lot of longevity and though I paid more it lasted me longer. To me to go DDR4 and not go X99 just doesn't make sense. The prices per gig are not where they need to be and unless you need the epeen or extra cores X99 can provide you with I really see no reason to go for it. Especially with respectable DDR3 kits going to 5$/gig. When it comes to DDR4, go big (X99) or go home (stay away until prices drop).
It's entirely possible to make the jump to Skylake and get DDR3L if that's the concern. I'd just have to buy new RAM in that case (or would it be feasible to undervolt my current RAM?).

That said, DDR4 prices are way down. Considering (according to Anandtech) DDR4-2133 CL15 is comparable to DDR3-1866 CL9, the price points are not actually far off, outside of deal hunting.

The problem I have with X99 is that you pay a huge premium for, in my case, a weaker CPU. I need a processor for gaming, not one for high-parallelism computations.

Quote from Excalibur
CPU Cooler: I'll never trust a stock Intel push-pin style cooler, but you probably don't need to break the bank over here. Any budget performance cooler like a Hyper 212 (Evo, ect) or other that you listed should do you fine. I'd let cash be king in this area and just go for what gets the job done for the lowest price based off sales at time of purchase.
Yeah, similar reasoning on my side of things.

Quote from Excalibur
Case and cosmetics: Preferences on color scheme / inclusion of a window? If there is no window do you care if the internals color coordinate? I find I'm doing a lot more window builds for friends lately and thus a few extra dollars usually end up going on getting parts that match each other. Personally I'm looking at the InWin 909 for my next build. Its going to have type-C and if you like it as much as I do you may want it as well. I believe its due out in the next month or so. There are a couple smaller variants already available but we may have to go down to mATX.
Front panel Type-C? That's amazing! I wonder if they're doing the same hack ASRock is doing. I'll have to keep an eye on that one.

Cosmetics aren't terribly important for me; I prefer function over form. I have no window on my current rig and it's perfectly fine by me.

Quote from Lanthanide
Quote from Excalibur
Storage: No EVOs. No. Stop. Bad. Don't make me get the newspaper. The Pros are nice because they don't have the issues the EVOs have had, but unless you really need the speed a Crucial/Micron can give you everything you need at a lower price and/or higher capacity. All this you seem to be aware of. Personally I'd grab one of the Crucial offerings in the size you want and enjoy the future that is non-mechanical storage.
I've got an 840 EVO which apparently suffers from the performance issue. Haven't noticed any problems at all.

Also that problem shouldn't affect the 850.
I also have an 840 EVO, and I have seen the slowdown issue after not using my computer for several weeks. Samsung's latest firmware solution fixes it by rewriting stale data periodically, which isn't so bad for higher-capacity drives, as they have better longevity.

It seems like the 850 EVO indeed doesn't have the same problem. That said, who knows if Samsung has actually worked out the kinks for their TLC drives? Only time will tell.

Quote from Excalibur
GPU: I really am not a 970 fan for the memory issue that you're already aware of. 1080p-acceptable or not, as a consumer I find it unacceptable to make the compromise that was made on this card. Personally I'd go with a 980/Ti depending on budget. We'll see where I get after I get answers from you. :P
Agreed. It just hurts because the GTX 980 would be great if it were cheaper. As it stands, I could spend almost $100 less for a 390X at near the same performance (with better support for DX12 rolling out soon here), but it doesn't meet my power consumption needs.

Quote from Excalibur
Good job on the PSU. In my personal preferences I'm a SeaSonic fanboy, but any platform that can deliver solidly with good efficiency is alright with me. I think you've got a pretty good idea of what goes on with PSUs, so no surprises there.
Yeah, I was going to go with either Seasonic or Super Flower; it just so happened that the latter caught my eye with a deal first.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Aug 8 2015, 12:21 pm by Roy.




Aug 8 2015, 6:04 pm Excalibur Post #7

The sword and the faith

I guess based off that this is what I'd do in your shoes Roy:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($178.63 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! PURE ROCK 51.4 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($31.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z97S SLI Krait Edition ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($129.45 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($81.30 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Crucial BX100 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($358.43 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 980 4GB AMP! Edition Video Card ($513.58 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT H230 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.32 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1359.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-08-08 14:03 EDT-0400

Note this is all with NJ 7% tax, not sure where you're located at.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Aug 8 2015, 6:49 pm Roy Post #8

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

I'm in ID, which has no sales tax for Amazon/Newegg/NCIX, and sales tax for Adorama. Not sure on the other locations as I haven't ordered from them before, but most of them probably don't have sales tax because nobody has a presence in Idaho. In any case, I'll be looking at sales, so any vendors PCPP picks today probably won't reflect who I actually buy them from.

Good picks all around. Question on the graphics card, though: is it worth looking into EVGA's B-Stock units? These seem to get mentioned on SD a lot every time the inventory changes. Right now for the 980 there's only a crummy reference card, but would you consider a recertified card in order to save $100 here if one comes up?

Also remember that I don't need to actually buy more DDR3; I can just use what I already have.




Aug 8 2015, 7:51 pm Excalibur Post #9

The sword and the faith

As long as EVGA's warranty / return are good on it I don't see why not. They're usually really solid about support.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
My stream, live PC building and tech discussion.

Aug 8 2015, 9:13 pm Fire_Kame Post #10

a left leaning coexistence nut

EVGA's return policy is excellent. We had to replace my graphics card, it was painless.




Aug 8 2015, 9:17 pm Lanthanide Post #11



For a few dollars more, get the i5 4590 instead: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4590-vs-Intel-Core-i5-4460



None.

Aug 13 2015, 1:56 am Roy Post #12

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

I did a little investigating around upcoming cases that will have USB Type-C in them. It looks like InWin has a couple of them (the previously mentioned 909, and the Mid-tower 805) in the works. BitFenix also has a few cases lined up, including the Pandora ATX (a larger version of the Pandora case) and the super bizarre Atlas. Finally, Silverstone has the TJ08-Pro in the works (an improved version of the TJ08-E, I presume).

These seem to be the only cases I could find that promise to feature a front-panel USB Type-C port at the moment, and sadly none of them are actually released yet. Supposedly they should be on their way before the end of this year, though, which means they could be viable options for this build. Of course, since we don't have headers for USB 3.1, these cases are either going to be running at 3.0 speeds, or they're going to use some hack (like a rear pass-through or the SATA Express thing ASRock came up with). While many of the Z170 boards have the Type-C connector on them, I can't imagine it being terribly useful until the technology has saturated the market (which will probably take a couple years).

All in all, it seems like USB 3.1 Gen2 (anyone else mildly annoyed by the increasingly-confusing USB naming schema?), along with the Type-C connector, are still out of reach. I'll be paying attention to the above-mentioned cases when they launch, but I don't think I'm going to have Type-C on my priority list anymore.




Sep 12 2015, 6:39 pm Roy Post #13

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Almost Bought Skylake


Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Oct 23 2015, 1:28 pm by Roy.




Jan 10 2016, 5:00 am Roy Post #14

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

I received the last of my parts this week and threw it all together this afternoon. I'll call it The Tuxedo.

The Final Build

One of the first things I did after getting it all set up was do a quick bench. Here are the results: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/646668

Everything looks good, though my RAM is underclocked by default. My keyboard is unresponsive during the boot screen, so I'll have to find my PS/2 adapter or otherwise finagle my way into the BIOS to set it to 1600. Here are some poorly-lit, low-res, terrible pictures of the PC:


Shots without the PSU cover. Everything looks so cramped in the corner, but I guess that's what happens when you mix a Micro ATX board with a full tower case. I wanted to route the motherboard cable through the hole parallel with it, but it wouldn't reach the PSU, so I had to have it go through the one below it.


The PSU cover cleans up the bottom. I'm not sure why there is a cable hole on the side of it there; it would be really strange to route anything around the cover like that.


The back side. As you can (maybe) see, the Enthoo Pro makes me look like I know how to do cable management. The fan hub is at the center, and I mounted the SSD over to the right of it. I originally had the 850 EVO tucked away at the mount on the bottom-right, but since the fan hub needed a SATA power cable, I rearranged things to save on cables.



Overall, it was a pretty fun and easy build. I might remove the drive bay since I'm not using it, but for now, I think I'm done. Thanks to everyone who helped with the new gaming rig!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 10 2016, 5:52 am by Roy.




Jan 11 2016, 12:20 am Lanthanide Post #15



Nice looking case.



None.

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