Responsible for my own happiness? I can't even be responsible for my own breakfast
why the slippery slope is not logically sound.
The "slippery slope" argument is simply a series of interconnected arguments, but if they correctly imply one another then there is nothing wrong with the argument.
Which means you haven't committed the slippery slope fallacy, right? You've just made a series of interconnected arguments. It only becomes fallacious if you create arguments that
fail to imply one another.
First of all, I'd love to see the evidence of that
There have been several studies about this. With a quick Google search, I bring you this:
http://americanhumanist.org/hnn/archives/index.php?id=219&article=7, secondly, a country happening to have more atheists and less crime does not directly correlate with the fact that there are more atheists there, most likely it's due to a more strict government,
Countries like Norway aren't exactly known for "strict" government. The United States, on the other hand, has a fairly strict criminal justice program and suffers from far more crime.
and comparing atheism to all of religion is a horrible analysis, since there are certain religions that teach excessive violence, for example, radical Muslims.
If a belief in an afterlife is a deterrent to crime, then Islam would be a valid religion to use in an analysis, as it incorporates belief in an afterlife. But even looking at the statistics for the United States, a primarily Christian nation will still yield the same result.
On the basis of this, I propose that if someone commits a murder, we should kill the murderer and their family. A lot of people have nothing to live for personally, suicidal tendencies and the like. However they probably care about at least one member of their family enough for that to be an effective deterrent.
They should suffer for their own actions, no one else.
If a belief in an afterlife is a deterrent to crime, then Islam would be a valid religion to use in an analysis, as it incorporates belief in an afterlife. But even looking at the statistics for the United States, a primarily Christian nation will still yield the same result.
It always comes back to overgeneralizations, because so many people are "religious" who don't even go to church or don't even know what their religion is about, you can't make a blanket statement regarding "religion" when so many people claim to be religious, but don't actually live up to it.
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Good point. Perhaps we can only pretend like we'll kill their family then. Although that might be a bit hard hmm...
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Responsible for my own happiness? I can't even be responsible for my own breakfast
It always comes back to overgeneralizations, because so many people are "religious" who don't even go to church or don't even know what their religion is about, you can't make a blanket statement regarding "religion" when so many people claim to be religious, but don't actually live up to it.
The only thing required, according to you, is a belief in the afterlife (and presumably some belief that one is judged for their actions). Going to church or "truly understanding" what their religion is about is not necessary for that condition.
The only thing required, according to you, is a belief in the afterlife (and presumably some belief that one is judged for their actions). Going to church or "truly understanding" what their religion is about is not necessary for that condition.
Obviously someone doesn't really believe it if they choose to commit crimes like this, the vast majority of "religious" people really don't believe their religion, if it came down to their lives or their religion, they'd choose their life.
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By the way, I forgot to mention that we should lock up all the pedophiles. That would prevent crimes like this from ever happening again.
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Responsible for my own happiness? I can't even be responsible for my own breakfast
It is perfectly possible to believe in an afterlife and find it little or no deterrent to committing a crime here on Earth. There is no correlation between
not believing in an afterlife and committing crimes, and to imply so is fallacious.
That is what I am saying.
Whether you believe that people who commit crimes are acting in accordance with their religion (or your interpretation of their religion is irrelevant.
Falkoner was trying to get the point across that: You are more likely to commit a crime if you don't think you will be
punished for it in the afterlife. Also, if you don't view death as a terrible punishment due to this, then you might be able to commit crimes with "impunity". Therefor, punishments should be dealt out so that a crime would be regretted being committed. He wasn't saying that atheist are crime fanatics. Falkoner should have worded his main thesis'ish thingy more carefully to avoid this entire monster attack from multiple members.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 23 2009, 10:32 pm by JaFF. Reason: Topic clean-up. You did nothing wrong.
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It is perfectly possible to believe in an afterlife and find it little or no deterrent to committing a crime here on Earth. There is no correlation between not believing in an afterlife and committing crimes, and to imply so is fallacious.
There is plenty of correlation, because if you actually believe in an afterlife, what reason would there be to screw it up for yourself here? You have to doubt it, at least slightly, to bring yourself to throw it all away.
Also, Cecil is right on the mark, although I don't see how what I said could be blown as far out of proportion as it was..
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That's weird. This is clearly a topic about religion. I don't get why it would remind you of those topics.
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Responsible for my own happiness? I can't even be responsible for my own breakfast
It is perfectly possible to believe in an afterlife and find it little or no deterrent to committing a crime here on Earth. There is no correlation between not believing in an afterlife and committing crimes, and to imply so is fallacious.
There is plenty of correlation, because if you actually believe in an afterlife, what reason would there be to screw it up for yourself here? You have to doubt it, at least slightly, to bring yourself to throw it all away.
You're not seriously suggesting that it is impossible to commit a crime and be a true believer, are you?
People do not always believe they will be punished for their crimes in their afterlife. There are plenty of cases where perpetrators believe they will be rewarded or forgiven.
EDIT: Please don't make the mistake of thinking my point here is that religion encourages crime. My point is simply that
it is possible to be both a "true" religious person and a criminal.
scwizard was being satirical. That's what I was talking about with the most recent post, it went way over your head.
My argument is that there is no connection between someone being religious and them being moral. The burden of proof to show that that isn't true is fully on you. On top of that, your point (as summed by Cecil) is wholly inaccurate if you simply look at the number of crimes committed BECAUSE people feel their actions are in accordance with some God's will. This doesn't even take into account things that are not crimes but are horrible for progression of society.
And please stop assuming that opponents of religion are atheists.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 23 2009, 10:35 pm by JaFF. Reason: Play nice. If you're insulting the intelligence of someone
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You're not seriously suggesting that it is impossible to commit a crime and be a true believer, are you?
In my religion it's a commandment to obey laws of the land, so at the very least, while you are committing the crime, you are going against your beliefs, something that at the very least is hard for most people to do.
People do not always believe they will be punished for their crimes in their afterlife. There are plenty of cases where perpetrators believe they will be rewarded or forgiven.
Still a blanket statement on religions in general, some are different than others, but the majority at least teach punishment for failing to obey laws in the afterlife.
scwizard was being satirical. That's what I was talking about with the most recent post, it went way over your head.
Seeing as I'm looking for an actual argument, not just satire from the peanut gallery, I'm not surprised I didn't get it.
And please stop assuming that opponents of religion are atheists.
What are you then?
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 23 2009, 10:36 pm by JaFF. Reason: Topic clean-up. You did nothing wrong.
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On top of that, your point (as summed by Cecil) is wholly inaccurate if you simply look at the number of crimes committed BECAUSE people feel their actions are in accordance with some God's will.
Yeah, erm, that's what I was talking about. They believe they won't be punished in the afterlife.
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Responsible for my own happiness? I can't even be responsible for my own breakfast
You're not seriously suggesting that it is impossible to commit a crime and be a true believer, are you?
In my religion it's a commandment to obey laws of the land, so at the very least, while you are committing the crime, you are going against your beliefs, something that at the very least is hard for most people to do.
I'm not debating you on your religion. Is it possible that committing a crime means you are not a true member of your faith? Sure. You'd know better than I would.
I am saying to imply that committing a crime means you do not believe in an afterlife is incorrect.
And please stop assuming that opponents of religion are atheists, it's almost as ignorant as some of the other points you've tried to make.
The opponents of religion are a subset of the set of people who are not religious. This is because a religious person opposing religion would be like a white person opposing whiteness.
Therefore because you're an opponent of religion, you must not be religious.
Next I will demonstrate that everyone who is not religious is an atheist and prove CecilSunkure/Falkoner correct.
To be religious is to believe in god. Beliefs are binary, you either hold the belief that god exists, or you don't hold the belief that god exists. Atheists are those who do not hold the belief that god exists. Religious people are those who hold the belief that god exists. Therefore not religious = atheist.
Therefore the opponents of religion are atheists.
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I'm not debating you on your religion. Is it possible that committing a crime means you are not a true member of your faith? Sure. You'd know better than I would.
I am saying to imply that committing a crime means you do not believe in an afterlife is incorrect.
I'm not implying that, I'm saying that it could easily be a contributing factor to why someone would commit a crime, but obviously it's not the only factor.
I said that it helps prevent you from doing something like that, it's just another moral barrier. It is not the key thing stopping you from doing so, it is simply another variable to consider.
I said that it helps prevent you from doing something like that, it's just another moral barrier. It is not the key thing stopping you from doing so, it is simply another variable to consider.
It isn't the key thing, however, my point was not that morally weak people are not religious, my point was that people who have no fear of an afterlife see the law as almost having no teeth, there's no suffering in their minds eye, it's not like prison is that bad of treatment.
You are more likely to commit a crime if you don't think you will be punished for it in the afterlife. Also, if you don't view death as a terrible punishment due to this, then you might be able to commit crimes with "impunity". Therefor, punishments should be dealt out so that a crime would be regretted being committed.
Next I will demonstrate that everyone who is not religious is an atheist and prove CecilSunkure/Falkoner correct.
And obviously that's untrue because there are those who simply don't believe either way, but if you're anti-religion I don't know of anything other than atheist to call you.
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 23 2009, 6:30 am by Falkoner.
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You could try non-religious?? Or maybe they are a religion that doesn't worship a god...
Then there are people who are intelligent enough to know that gods exist, and realize that they are not absolute truths as well. What is your blanket term for that?
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Vrael
