What da FUCK is going on here. Nukes do 10 damage to immortals. That's balanced... How? Not to mention the fact that Roaches now regenerate at 15HP/SEC What the HELL? Blizzard aren't thinking about these units... Seriously, roaches are cheap, massing, regen fast... And I really can't just micromanage every skirmish with roaches, I think these decisions are BAD. http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1059524&p=1&#post1059524 Discuss.

What da FUCK is going on here.

Nukes do 10 damage to immortals. That's balanced... How?
Not to mention the fact that Roaches now regenerate at 15HP/SEC
What the HELL? Blizzard aren't thinking about these units...

Seriously, roaches are cheap, massing, regen fast...

And I really can't just micromanage every skirmish with roaches, I think these decisions are BAD.
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1059524&p=1&#post1059524
Discuss.

Immortals can only be killed by weaker units that causes less damage, they're made to resist any heavy impact. They are always willing to be as the best defense and offense. A bunch marines can easily kill Immortals. Roaches can die from concentrated fire or by heavy fire. I'm positive that's as balanced as it could get.

Immortals can only be killed by weaker units that causes less damage, they're made to resist any heavy impact. They are always willing to be as the best defense and offense. A bunch marines can easily kill Immortals. Roaches can die from concentrated fire or by heavy fire. I'm positive that's as balanced as it could get.

It's a nuke! I mean, I agree, Immortals ARE supposed to tank the big hits well, but a NUKE? Come on... And roaches, they remove all effectiveness of mop up tactics, every fight becomes a massive amount of micro to kill them, while your foe quite simply can say Atack to HERE. If he splits his roach masses, he can just attack move, and rape you, you won't have a chance to micro both battles at once, killing roaches with focus fire is fast, but it requires much clicking, and you can't leave them unattended. At all.

It's a nuke! I mean, I agree, Immortals ARE supposed to tank the big hits well, but a NUKE? Come on...
And roaches, they remove all effectiveness of mop up tactics, every fight becomes a massive amount of micro to kill them, while your foe quite simply can say Atack to HERE. If he splits his roach masses, he can just attack move, and rape you, you won't have a chance to micro both battles at once, killing roaches with focus fire is fast, but it requires much clicking, and you can't leave them unattended. At all.

Roaches doesn't stand a chance to air units, especially the Plasma Torpedo and the Banshee's spread area effect missile attacks or the micro of Mutalisk's bouncing glaive attacks.. Immortals, well they are after all, called Immortals for a reason. Their complete weakness is something that doesn't activate the hardened shield and is big in numbers. Perhaps any basic unit can kill Immortals, it's just a way to make sure all units are used in a melee match. Also I forgot to mention. Thors are also tanker units as to see how at full health can easily survive a single nuke.

Roaches doesn't stand a chance to air units, especially the Plasma Torpedo and the Banshee's spread area effect missile attacks or the micro of Mutalisk's bouncing glaive attacks.. Immortals, well they are after all, called Immortals for a reason. Their complete weakness is something that doesn't activate the hardened shield and is big in numbers. Perhaps any basic unit can kill Immortals, it's just a way to make sure all units are used in a melee match.

Also I forgot to mention. Thors are also tanker units as to see how at full health can easily survive a single nuke.

Yeah, but all of those are tier 2+ Roaches are 1.5...

Yeah, but all of those are tier 2+
Roaches are 1.5...

Focus-fire is your friend.

Focus-fire is your friend.

Well, it does annoy me that the other player has to put quite a bit more effort then the Roach user does.. it should be something like 'fast regeneration while attacking'.

Well, it does annoy me that the other player has to put quite a bit more effort then the Roach user does.. it should be something like 'fast regeneration while attacking'.

Immortals are the REAL Roaches if they can survive a nuclear strike and yet need human interference to squish them. Eh, I wouldn't mind. Just nuke and get rid of the zealots then finish the immortals off with marines.

Immortals are the REAL Roaches if they can survive a nuclear strike and yet need human interference to squish them.

Eh, I wouldn't mind. Just nuke and get rid of the zealots then finish the immortals off with marines.

[quote=name:FlyingHat]Immortals are the REAL Roaches if they can survive a nuclear strike and yet need human interference to squish them. Eh, I wouldn't mind. Just nuke and get rid of the zealots then finish the immortals off with marines.[/quote] Immortals don't need human interference to squish them. You just need a few marines.

Quote from FlyingHat

Immortals are the REAL Roaches if they can survive a nuclear strike and yet need human interference to squish them.

Eh, I wouldn't mind. Just nuke and get rid of the zealots then finish the immortals off with marines.

Immortals don't need human interference to squish them. You just need a few marines.

Marines are the human interference.

Marines are the human interference.

I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched. -EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach

I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched.
-EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach

it regains 15hp per second, lets suppose that a marine shoots once per second, 2 marines would do 1 damage per sec to a roach, three would do 9, etc. Shouldnt be too imbalanced. Anywho, I always loved the zerg and terran, both of which are fulfilling my expectations

it regains 15hp per second, lets suppose that a marine shoots once per second, 2 marines would do 1 damage per sec to a roach, three would do 9, etc.

Shouldnt be too imbalanced. Anywho, I always loved the zerg and terran, both of which are fulfilling my expectations

[quote=name:BeDazed]I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched. -EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach[/quote] You can build as much Shadow Ops as you want filling every and single one of them either nuke or drop pod if you let your infantry enter it. You no longer require the Command Center for an add-on just to have another nuke. I'm positive that the nuke's price stays the same. Just stronger.

Quote from BeDazed

I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched.
-EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach

You can build as much Shadow Ops as you want filling every and single one of them either nuke or drop pod if you let your infantry enter it. You no longer require the Command Center for an add-on just to have another nuke.

I'm positive that the nuke's price stays the same. Just stronger.

[quote=name:BeDazed]I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched. -EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach[/quote] Only with the snipe attack, [Micro city!] and nukes are cheaper and faster to launch. [quote=name:LoveLess]it regains 15hp per second, lets suppose that a marine shoots once per second, 2 marines would do 1 damage per sec to a roach, three would do 9, etc. Shouldnt be too imbalanced. Anywho, I always loved the zerg and terran, both of which are fulfilling my expectations[/quote] Yes, but you have to tell those 3 marines to attack it, you can't just attack move like most skirmishes, hence my point where I stated that a 2 front attack of roaches is killswitch. [quote=name:KrAzY][quote=name:BeDazed]I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched. -EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach[/quote] You can build as much Shadow Ops as you want filling every and single one of them either nuke or drop pod if you let your infantry enter it. You no longer require the Command Center for an add-on just to have another nuke. I'm positive that the nuke's price stays the same. Just stronger.[/quote] It is cheaper and easier to get nukes, altogether. Roaches have 90hp. Terrans don't have anything that can stand up to these. Immortals are the protoss counterparts, just with a different system, so what will Terrans have to tank mass damage? They weren't the best tankers in SC1.

Quote from BeDazed

I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched. -EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach

Only with the snipe attack, [Micro city!] and nukes are cheaper and faster to launch.

Quote from LoveLess

it regains 15hp per second, lets suppose that a marine shoots once per second, 2 marines would do 1 damage per sec to a roach, three would do 9, etc. Shouldnt be too imbalanced. Anywho, I always loved the zerg and terran, both of which are fulfilling my expectations

Yes, but you have to tell those 3 marines to attack it, you can't just attack move like most skirmishes, hence my point where I stated that a 2 front attack of roaches is killswitch.

Quote from KrAzY

Quote from BeDazed

I wonder if the nuke got cheaper. And more easily launched. -EDIT:: Also, I believe a terran ghost can 1 hit kill a roach

You can build as much Shadow Ops as you want filling every and single one of them either nuke or drop pod if you let your infantry enter it. You no longer require the Command Center for an add-on just to have another nuke. I'm positive that the nuke's price stays the same. Just stronger.

It is cheaper and easier to get nukes, altogether.

Roaches have 90hp.
Terrans don't have anything that can stand up to these. Immortals are the protoss counterparts, just with a different system, so what will Terrans have to tank mass damage? They weren't the best tankers in SC1.

Nukes did not drop it's price at all, just allows you to construct a lot of Shadow Ops for an abundant amount of nukes than just a single add-on attached to the Command Center.

Nukes did not drop it's price at all, just allows you to construct a lot of Shadow Ops for an abundant amount of nukes than just a single add-on attached to the Command Center.

Yeah, but yellow minerals. And shadow ops are way cheaper than CCs, so overall, it's a lot cheaper.

Yeah, but yellow minerals.
And shadow ops are way cheaper than CCs, so overall, it's a lot cheaper.

They nerfed nukes because not alot used them. [quote] Roaches have 90hp. Terrans don't have anything that can stand up to these. Immortals are the protoss counterparts, just with a different system, so what will Terrans have to tank mass damage? They weren't the best tankers in SC1.[/quote] Terrans have the best firepower in the game. Every unit is considerably cheap for Terrans, and they are mostly ranged. The advantage is that ranged units can focus fire, or add up firepower relatively quickly. Terrans also have the longest range of splash damage and explosive rigs that are able to kill about anything in a few hits. If you've played [b]competitive melee[/b], then you should've seen Vultures in action quite alot. Well Viper is the SC2 replacement, and now does effective damage vs Thor. The possible attack types are explosive or normal. They did 25 damage per hit, and they were fast too. If they really are vulture replacement, they could probably easily be massed- and overwhelm enemies at ease. Also, Marines enmassed will kill about anything. Roach included. Also Terrans always had to depend on their unit special ability to win games, not sheer strength. Units are too fragile for that. Such as Stim Pack increased their firing rate, which effectively doubled its attack, enable marines to 'dodge' lurker spines, and micro at much ease. Vulture mines was planted enmass all over the map, making players hard to move around without bringing a detector- or be screwed over. Siege tanks could 'siege' for a increase in firepower and range but giving up defense and mobility for it. Vultures make up for this. Have you seen the Banshee? That thing could annihilate the Zerg if used correctly. [quote]Only with the snipe attack, [Micro city!] and nukes are cheaper and faster to launch.[/quote] Terran has always been a micro/macro race, once being picked as the hardest race of the 3 to play. There needs to be consistant mass and constant use of unit abilities.

They nerfed nukes because not alot used them.

Quote

Roaches have 90hp.
Terrans don't have anything that can stand up to these. Immortals are the protoss counterparts, just with a different system, so what will Terrans have to tank mass damage? They weren't the best tankers in SC1.

Terrans have the best firepower in the game. Every unit is considerably cheap for Terrans, and they are mostly ranged. The advantage is that ranged units can focus fire, or add up firepower relatively quickly. Terrans also have the longest range of splash damage and explosive rigs that are able to kill about anything in a few hits.
If you've played competitive melee, then you should've seen Vultures in action quite alot. Well Viper is the SC2 replacement, and now does effective damage vs Thor. The possible attack types are explosive or normal. They did 25 damage per hit, and they were fast too. If they really are vulture replacement, they could probably easily be massed- and overwhelm enemies at ease.
Also, Marines enmassed will kill about anything. Roach included. Also Terrans always had to depend on their unit special ability to win games, not sheer strength. Units are too fragile for that. Such as Stim Pack increased their firing rate, which effectively doubled its attack, enable marines to 'dodge' lurker spines, and micro at much ease. Vulture mines was planted enmass all over the map, making players hard to move around without bringing a detector- or be screwed over. Siege tanks could 'siege' for a increase in firepower and range but giving up defense and mobility for it. Vultures make up for this.
Have you seen the Banshee? That thing could annihilate the Zerg if used correctly.

Quote

Only with the snipe attack, [Micro city!] and nukes are cheaper and faster to launch.

Terran has always been a micro/macro race, once being picked as the hardest race of the 3 to play. There needs to be consistant mass and constant use of unit abilities.

Most? Terran doesn't have a melee unit. Also Vipers are out.

Most?

Terran doesn't have a melee unit.

Also Vipers are out.

[quote=name:BeDazed]They nerfed nukes because not alot used them. [quote] Roaches have 90hp. Terrans don't have anything that can stand up to these. Immortals are the protoss counterparts, just with a different system, so what will Terrans have to tank mass damage? They weren't the best tankers in SC1.[/quote] Terrans have the best firepower in the game. Every unit is considerably cheap for Terrans, and they are mostly ranged. The advantage is that ranged units can focus fire, or add up firepower relatively quickly. Terrans also have the longest range of splash damage and explosive rigs that are able to kill about anything in a few hits. If you've played [b]competitive melee[/b], then you should've seen Vultures in action quite alot. Well Viper is the SC2 replacement, and now does effective damage vs Thor. The possible attack types are explosive or normal. They did 25 damage per hit, and they were fast too. If they really are vulture replacement, they could probably easily be massed- and overwhelm enemies at ease. Also, 10 Tiny Kittens 6 Cute Koalas -2 Buttery Lobsters 9 Horde of Guinea Pigs +2 EMP_Recruits 6 Pink Unicorns Roach included. Also Terrans always had to depend on their unit special ability to win games, not sheer strength. Units are too fragile for that. Such as Stim Pack increased their firing rate, which effectively doubled its attack, enable marines to 'dodge' lurker spines, and micro at much ease. Vulture mines was planted enmass all over the map, making players hard to move around without bringing a detector- or be screwed over. Siege tanks could 'siege' for a increase in firepower and range but giving up defense and mobility for it. Vultures make up for this. Have you seen the Banshee? That thing could annihilate the Zerg if used correctly. [quote]Only with the snipe attack, [Micro city!] and nukes are cheaper and faster to launch.[/quote] Terran has always been a micro/macro race, once being picked as the hardest race of the 3 to play. There needs to be consistant mass and constant use of unit abilities.[/quote] You raise good points, I had forgotten about the banshee, they'll probably make an effective anti-roach weapon [being tier 2, so rushin banshees to defend against a roach mass is viable] Vultures are good, but they're only used in specific cases [opponents using small units, or when they're being reckless with their army] I haven't seen them in action though, very rarely in fact [yes, I do obs random pub games!] The range is going to be rather obsolete with the nydus worm and infestor units running around underground, effectively being mobile cloakers, something zerg never had before! And you say that the added up firepower of marines will slaughter marines, 2v1 agaisnt roaches WITHOUT REGEN marines would lose, at the moment, it takes 3 non-stimmed marines to hurt a roach for 1 damage per second. Per roach. With 90 hp, and costing only 75/25 they will rape the only massed defenders terrans will have at the point where roaches come into play, this is especially true as I've stated many times on a two edged front, you can't look after two armies! If you want to use swarm tactics to beat zerg, you're a fool, roaches are cheapish swarmers perfect for fire-and-forget type tactics, you attack move them, and they'll mass in. If you wanted to use massed marines to kill roaches, a force of roughly 36 marines vs 12 roaches MIGHT win. Stim will be a good counter, but nonetheless, about 24 stimmed marines could stop a 12 roach mass, but it would be damn close. This is from the PoV of an average SC player who spends more time UMSing than meleeing, we shouldn't need large amounts of micro to defeat a foe using less micro than us! Roaches are quite simply the most horrible thing to see from a non-melee-ers PoV, they're tough, require micro or heavy units to kill, and they're ranged! The worst part is, and I'll keep saying it, they just have to hit A+Click. That's all zerg has to do with his roaches, you have to select your squads of marines, then click a roach, then click again at the medium-small target... EDIT: Err. [quote] 10 Tiny Kittens 6 Cute Koalas -2 Buttery Lobsters 9 Horde of Guinea Pigs +2 EMP_Recruits 6 Pink Unicorns [/quote] Wat?

Quote from BeDazed

They nerfed nukes because not alot used them.

Quote

Roaches have 90hp. Terrans don't have anything that can stand up to these. Immortals are the protoss counterparts, just with a different system, so what will Terrans have to tank mass damage? They weren't the best tankers in SC1.

Terrans have the best firepower in the game. Every unit is considerably cheap for Terrans, and they are mostly ranged. The advantage is that ranged units can focus fire, or add up firepower relatively quickly. Terrans also have the longest range of splash damage and explosive rigs that are able to kill about anything in a few hits. If you've played competitive melee, then you should've seen Vultures in action quite alot. Well Viper is the SC2 replacement, and now does effective damage vs Thor. The possible attack types are explosive or normal. They did 25 damage per hit, and they were fast too. If they really are vulture replacement, they could probably easily be massed- and overwhelm enemies at ease. Also, 10 Tiny Kittens
6 Cute Koalas
-2 Buttery Lobsters
9 Horde of Guinea Pigs
+2 EMP_Recruits
6 Pink Unicorns Roach included. Also Terrans always had to depend on their unit special ability to win games, not sheer strength. Units are too fragile for that. Such as Stim Pack increased their firing rate, which effectively doubled its attack, enable marines to 'dodge' lurker spines, and micro at much ease. Vulture mines was planted enmass all over the map, making players hard to move around without bringing a detector- or be screwed over. Siege tanks could 'siege' for a increase in firepower and range but giving up defense and mobility for it. Vultures make up for this. Have you seen the Banshee? That thing could annihilate the Zerg if used correctly.

Quote

Only with the snipe attack, [Micro city!] and nukes are cheaper and faster to launch.

Terran has always been a micro/macro race, once being picked as the hardest race of the 3 to play. There needs to be consistant mass and constant use of unit abilities.

You raise good points, I had forgotten about the banshee, they'll probably make an effective anti-roach weapon [being tier 2, so rushin banshees to defend against a roach mass is viable]

Vultures are good, but they're only used in specific cases [opponents using small units, or when they're being reckless with their army]
I haven't seen them in action though, very rarely in fact [yes, I do obs random pub games!]

The range is going to be rather obsolete with the nydus worm and infestor units running around underground, effectively being mobile cloakers, something zerg never had before!
And you say that the added up firepower of marines will slaughter marines, 2v1 agaisnt roaches WITHOUT REGEN marines would lose, at the moment, it takes 3 non-stimmed marines to hurt a roach for 1 damage per second. Per roach. With 90 hp, and costing only 75/25 they will rape the only massed defenders terrans will have at the point where roaches come into play, this is especially true as I've stated many times on a two edged front, you can't look after two armies!

If you want to use swarm tactics to beat zerg, you're a fool, roaches are cheapish swarmers perfect for fire-and-forget type tactics, you attack move them, and they'll mass in. If you wanted to use massed marines to kill roaches, a force of roughly 36 marines vs 12 roaches MIGHT win. Stim will be a good counter, but nonetheless, about 24 stimmed marines could stop a 12 roach mass, but it would be damn close. This is from the PoV of an average SC player who spends more time UMSing than meleeing, we shouldn't need large amounts of micro to defeat a foe using less micro than us! Roaches are quite simply the most horrible thing to see from a non-melee-ers PoV, they're tough, require micro or heavy units to kill, and they're ranged! The worst part is, and I'll keep saying it, they just have to hit A+Click. That's all zerg has to do with his roaches, you have to select your squads of marines, then click a roach, then click again at the medium-small target...

EDIT:
Err.

Quote

10 Tiny Kittens
6 Cute Koalas
-2 Buttery Lobsters
9 Horde of Guinea Pigs
+2 EMP_Recruits
6 Pink Unicorns

Wat?

[quote=name:Syphon]Most? Terran doesn't have a melee unit. Also Vipers are out.[/quote] SCVs are. :lol:

Quote from Syphon[MM]

Most?

Terran doesn't have a melee unit.

Also Vipers are out.

SCVs are.