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HoN
Sep 16 2009, 11:26 am
By: Forsaken Archer
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Jun 21 2010, 11:58 am poison_us Post #1661

Back* from the grave

Runed axe would rape teamfights. It does the 40 AoE damage, right? That, and if your ulti carries the same inventory as you, and doesn't vanish after you become a mirage anymore...




Jun 21 2010, 12:03 pm NudeRaider Post #1662

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Sand Wraith
The majority of the time, I can't carry because my support can't manage to support: they would never harass, never heal, never target the right person, steal creeps, auto-attack and push the lane, feed, rambo in, or similar.
I would do that for you if I could play HoN. :(




Jun 21 2010, 2:33 pm ETEFT(U) Post #1663



I play HoN, my name is kouNt. I'm actually really good :P



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Jun 21 2010, 5:57 pm ShredderIV Post #1664



Quote from poison_us
Runed axe would rape teamfights. It does the 40 AoE damage, right? That, and if your ulti carries the same inventory as you, and doesn't vanish after you become a mirage anymore...
well, It's not 40 AOe damage, it's 40% damage, which would actually be higher.

It would work well, but only if they were all very close together. SW is much better using his gold to get tanking items, so that his dissipation can do the most damage possible.



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Jun 21 2010, 6:05 pm ETEFT(U) Post #1665



Runed axe only works on creeps, not heroes.



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Jun 21 2010, 8:46 pm Decency Post #1666



Quote from Sand Wraith
FaZ, any comments on SW? Especially on the hardness of SW, compared to other heavy carries e.g. Arachna, DL, MB, SB. Let's throw in Pesti, SS, and FA too.

SW IMO definitely needs some buffs to match up to the current metagame. Did some reading and play-testing, and I'd definitely say that Deserted needs a buff of sorts. Might be any combination or single buff of does not count creeps, affects creeps, increased damage. Desert Curse could use a rescale to either be a better farming tool or a better ganking tool (small buff on personal MS boost, maybe). Dissipate has a huge bundle of counters, and I think that a slight buff to the magic damage amount could serve him well. Stat boosts, in base damage and base STR, could give him a slightly easier time laning.

Either a variety of small, tiny buffs to SW or a slew of tiny nerfs to the majority of ranged Heroes. 'Cause the game and lineups are pretty much stacked against SW. :/
Considering all of the crazy animations, MSs, damage, etc. on ranged Heroes, the majority of melee are left behind, as you have said.

EDIT:
I'm really tired right now. I probably said some pretty stupid things that I don't actually want.
Core idea is that SW needs a slightly better early game. Primary focus of buffs on Hero's stats, as opposed to skills. Skill-wise, if we increased the effectiveness of Curse by boosting the MS bonus or decreasing the mana cost, that could work. Maybe, change Deserted such that it's procurement conditions are more lenient, e.g. damage is merely reduced by increase number of enemies, or it does not count creeps, or it deals 5/10/15/20 True when creeps are around and additional +1/3/5/7% if nothing is around (so LVL4 with nothing around, 20 True + 7% of base attack damage, True), or it can work on creeps.
The nerf of his Dissipate from True Damage --> Magic Damage gimped him severely. He's no longer as much of a lategame powerhouse because not only did he lose at least 25% of his damage output but he lost the ability to damage enemy carries who have Shrunken Head. Barrier Idol also now hard counters him. In any carry versus carry fight, he gets destroyed hard because none of his skills scale. His escape mechanism is also very weak compared to Swiftblade/Predator who have magic immunity and Chronos/Magebane who can blink; offensively it's very predictable. This makes him very weak in lane and the one thing you'll notice about any melee carries who get picked is that they can put out damage in lane when a clash happens. Sand Wraith used to make up for that weakness by being unstoppable late game with farm, but he's not any more. Finally, his ult is good against newbs who don't realize you can just TP if he comes in.

Since the nerf I haven't seen him in any competitive game at all. As for going Runed Axe on him, it's common on a lot of melee carries because it lets them farm waves super fast, but Sand Wraith has never been built as a DPS carry, he's built as a tank carry with HotbL/Behe Heart/Mock/Frostburn because Dissipate is his most important skill. DPS carries usually have something that scales, ie: criticals, attack speed, %Damage, etc.


Imho he should be turned into a ganker simply by replacing Dissipate with some sort of stun. Something like "Quicksand: target area becomes quicksand for 10 seconds. Enemies in it are ministunned and those which attempt to walk through it are slowed by 1% per 10 units moved until they leave the radius. Radius: 300/400/500/600." So if someone is dumb enough to try to run straight through a level 3/4 quicksand, they'd get slowed 100% and trapped for the duration of the spell. =D

But yeah, Runed Axe works against heroes too. When Kunkka finally comes you'll see a lot of people stacking more than one of them on him, so I've heard.



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Jun 21 2010, 9:23 pm ETEFT(U) Post #1667



Oh.. duhhh runed axe I thought you meant Hatchet, haha, thats what happens when you don't get any sleep for 36 hours. Yes runed axe attacks heroes and in DotA people bought two and even three of them for Kunkka.



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Jun 23 2010, 1:50 am Sand Wraith Post #1668

she/her

Quote from name:B-ETEFT
Oh.. duhhh runed axe I thought you meant Hatchet, haha, thats what happens when you don't get any sleep for 36 hours. Yes runed axe attacks heroes and in DotA people bought two and even three of them for Kunkka.

Congratulations on having the 1666th post in the HoN thread.




Jun 23 2010, 1:55 am ShredderIV Post #1669



Quote from Sand Wraith
Quote from name:B-ETEFT
Oh.. duhhh runed axe I thought you meant Hatchet, haha, thats what happens when you don't get any sleep for 36 hours. Yes runed axe attacks heroes and in DotA people bought two and even three of them for Kunkka.

Congratulations on having the 1666th post in the HoN thread.
Ummm... actually... Faz has it.



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Jun 23 2010, 2:13 am ETEFT(U) Post #1670



I'd be happier with the 1337 post. :P



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Jun 24 2010, 2:17 pm Demented Shaman Post #1671



Another thing all the HoN haters neglect is the fact that HoN is going to have a MAP EDITOR which is another thing LoL won't have.



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Jun 24 2010, 2:45 pm Sand Wraith Post #1672

she/her

Quote from Demented Shaman
Another thing all the HoN haters neglect is the fact that HoN is going to have a MAP EDITOR SDK which is another thing LoL won't have.

Fixed.

Definitely going to make a cinematic detailing an epic between SW and Chronos.
That, or a femslash fic.

Or SOMETHING.

Also, you might want to mention DREAM.




Jun 24 2010, 8:32 pm LoveLess Post #1673

Let me show you how to hump without making love.

Quote from Sand Wraith
Some guy said "get Runed Axe" on SW. I'm going to try it out. However, I'm EXTREMELY doubtful it would work. I'm thinking going standard beginning build, but in-lane get a shield, then Lifetube, upgrade to Ironshield, farm Manatube, farm with Desert's Curse and +10 damage from Sustainer, and just go from there. Will try it out.

It worked on Mercurial if she need to farm quickly due to a gank/push heavy team. Personally, I think it is very game dependent. Just as going Phase Boots Early in the game is also game dependent on SW. It can give him faster movement and damage output, allowing him to strike faster when he is weaker, early in the game. He is not your standard "I get X core/luxury items and win, gg" hero. He is extremely item dependent compared to most and that is why he is so flexible in terms of items, making it easy to adapt him to different line-ups.




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Jun 25 2010, 11:50 pm Demented Shaman Post #1674



Jill posted this on the HoN forums. epic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAKPqpN85-I



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Jun 27 2010, 3:01 pm Demented Shaman Post #1675



I'm glad kount aka ETEFT is actually good unlike many other SEN players. He may be the next Neki.



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Jun 27 2010, 4:12 pm ShredderIV Post #1676



Quote from Demented Shaman
I'm glad kount aka ETEFT is actually good unlike many other SEN players. He may be the next Neki.
Can he play valk?

If not, then he's not the next neki. BTW, where has ultimo been lately? I haven't seen him at all.



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Jun 27 2010, 4:15 pm Demented Shaman Post #1677



Neki is currently "banned" from SEN in a way. Whenever he's logged in he only gets to see a white page with a message telling him to buy hon and to contact IP on MSN and until he does so IP isn't removing it.



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Jun 27 2010, 6:51 pm ETEFT(U) Post #1678



Quote from name:Pebbles
Quote from Demented Shaman
I'm glad kount aka ETEFT is actually good unlike many other SEN players. He may be the next Neki.
Can he play valk?

If not, then he's not the next neki. BTW, where has ultimo been lately? I haven't seen him at all.

Ehm, Valk isn't one of my strong heroes in HoN which is strange because I was really good with PotM in DotA. I'll be on later today and get some games going, GG yesterday though, those guys were tough but me and IP pwned em' pretty hard, haha, I think they had like 58% chance of winning over us.



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Jun 27 2010, 7:55 pm Decency Post #1679



Pretty excited about this next patch. No more hard carries with stuns, pretty much.

Quote
Version 0.2.74
-------------
General

- Report a player added
* This is a VERY rough state, interface and more are still being tweaked/worked on

- Gave Vulture Lord's second ability an icon (means the aura no longer displays a black and white checkerboard)
- Tons of tool tip updates and fixes
- Stores will no longer remove the 'can buy from me' state if you or a courier goes invulnerable
- Decreased in-game font size slightly
- If a player has modified their resources0.s2z file, then they will be disconnected when they try to connect to a game
- Fixed a mac/linux crash
- Fixed issue preventing players from selecting a potential hero during the banning phase.
- Disconnected players will no longer random when it becomes their turn to pick, unless they run out of time.
* Disconnected players are not allowed to use "extra time" in BP mode (if it is their turn, and they are disconnected, then they will pick their potential hero or a random hero)
- Added a new message when the courier is killed by a non-hero unit, it will now show a minimap ping along with the appropriate game message indicating which team the courier was killed by
- Fixed an issue in duplicate hero mode where if two players had the same hero "potentially" selected, only one would get it and the other would random
- Misc server optimizations to improve stability
- News is hidden when choosing to follow a player
- The client will no longer display a message indicating the player will get a leave for disconnecting if they are in a replay or a practice game


Items
- New Item: Blood Chalice (Initiation)

- Puzzlebox Minions will no longer be able to attack towers unless the owner is within 700 units of them
- Geometer's bane now applies the 0.1 seconds of invulnerability to the illusions that spawn, in addition to the hero that uses it
- Fixed a bug causing Astrolabe to be able to affect a target twice in short succession if the target was purged
- Frostfield Plate can no longer be used by Couriers
- Whispering Helm can no longer be used by Couriers
- Ground courier can now be attacked by towers/well

Bottle
- Fixed it so when you have illusion bottled and use it, the illusions still don't have it bottled!
- Double Damage will now correctly last 45 seconds instead of 30 seconds when used out of a bottle

Loggers Hatchet
- No longer works on splash damage


Heroes

- New Legion Strength hero, Gladiator, based off DotA's Kunkka
* Note: No sounds or voice yet

Balphagore
- Balphagore's third ability will no longer consume gadgets. Nom nom nom.
- Hell on Newerth
* Cast time removed
* Expanding ring now 'sticks' on Balphagore as he moves and expands to max distance 300ms faster

Behemoth
- Shockwave will no longer hit couriers

Bubbles
- When toggled on, Take Cover will now automatically be used if the source of damage is owned by an enemy hero (enemy pets/gadgets will trigger it)

Blacksmith
- Fixed an issue causing Frenzy multicast to not apply to the correct number of targets (usually one less than it should)

Chipper
- Players are now deny-able if they are burning from the Tar + Rocket combo

Chronos
- Time Leap
* Damage removed
* Manacost lowered from 135 to 120
- Curse of Ages
* Buff/Debuff time lowered from 10s to 8.5s
* Agi steal increased from 1/1/2/3 to 1/2/3/4 per hit

Devourer
- Devour now reveals any target bit for the duration

Engineer
- Turret reworked
* Changed to a vector targetting ability to decide the direction it is facing
* No longer controllable and only lasts 6 seconds
* No longer gets a copy of Engineer's items
* Lays down suppressive cover fire in a cone shooting 6 times across the cone's 800 range, 400 unit spread, 30 shots total
* Each bullet deals 25/40/55/70 Physical damage and applyes a 7% stacking movespeed snare (5s duration) to the first target it hits
* Can only be hit by a max of 5 bullets
- Energy Field
* Will no longer hit couriers
* Duration lowered from 6/9/12 to 6/8/10
* Hits to kill lowered from 5 to 4

Forsaken Archer
- Crippling Volley
* Ministun removed
* Radius lowered from 225 to 200
* Damage done increased from 85/140/195/250 to 85/150/215/280

Fayde
- Lowered movement speed from 305 to 300
- Charges from Scythe/Shadow Stance lowered from 2/3/4/5 and 1/2/3/4
- Reflection
* Movespeed while stealthed rebalanced from 10/20/30% to 10/15/20%
* Duration rebalanced from 30/35/40 to 20/35/50

Gauntlet
- Partially Reworked (See forum post)

Legionnaire
- Int gain increased from 1.6 to 1.9
- Terrify
* Cast time removed (0.6 -> 0)
* Now grants vision of the target for the duration of the charge
* Now reveals target for the duration of the charge

Madman
- Barrel Roll
* Stun removed
* Applies a 30/37/44/50% snare for 3.5s
* Damage increased from 100/150/200/250 to 100/160/220/280

Pebbles
- Can no longer throw invisible units

Puppetmaster
- Puppeteer's Hold
* Fixed a rare bug causing Puppet Strings' floating handles to never disappear
* "Snare" effect while under the effect halved from 155 force to 80 force
* Negative Attackspeed removed
* Cast point sped up from 500ms to 300ms

Rampage
- Completely reworked (See forum post)

Slither
- Wards will no longer apply their movement speed slow when they miss

Soul Reaper
- Demonic Execution will no longer be usable on couriers

Soulstealer
- Demon Hand now has a better indicator to its actual radius

Tempest
- Purge should now affect tempest's elementals after they split

Vindicator
- Glyph of Silence will properly silence heroes that go invulnerable during casts (Magmus, Madman, etc)

Wildsoul
- Illusions will properly copy themselves when he is under the effects of Bear Form

War Best
- Illusions will properly copy themselves when he is under the effects of Metamorphosis
- Wolf minions will no longer be able to attack towers unless Warbeast is within 700 units of them

Zephyr
- Gust
* Stun Removed
* Damage increased from 75,125,175,250 to 75,150,225,300




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Jun 27 2010, 8:03 pm Demented Shaman Post #1680



Nice. I like the lack of stun on hard carries.



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