Wow IP and Hydro don't even know that SR is a carry and not a support. Fail.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=141321

also
4) Tower aggro (and the game) encourages pushing. The tower will not target you if you are attacking it as long as creeps are around.


Dev you're an idiot.
I would not group him as support like polly, but I am definitely not grouping him as a carry like magebane. I would be okay with calling him a carry-mage.

Wow epic heroes like these reminds me of how much garbage LoL is.

You really need your ego deflated.


At least LoL has two lolis though. It kinda makes up for the rest of them.

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IP, I don't understand why "encouraging pushing" should make LoL better or funner to play. IMO, LoL is flawed in a lot of its mechanics. The removal of denies and the tower AI change are my examples. The removal of denies removes an aspect of skill required to play HoN vs. LoL, and both support and carries end up having to farm the same creep waves, forcing players from the same team to starve themselves with no return of benefit at all, whereas if they could at least deny, they would be able to control the lane to go where the players want it to. E.g. I can "static farm" in HoN for 20min in the same lane without pushing down even the first tower as Sand Wraith (I've actually tried this). In LoL, I can't choose to try to static farm to get up my gold so I can end the game with my carry items. I'm forced to push a lane, move to another lane, and push that lane in order to get my items. I can't farm enemy Heroes either since they're not idiots.
The tower AI removes an important detail in tower diving and tower defense. Although that and the deny factor permit a defensive playstyle, it does not remove my choice to play a heavy push game. I'm not forced to play aggressively, I can choose to play a 4-carry team and still win if I can hold it off into late game, but I would be punished for it if I'm pushed by a 5-man pushing team playing it balls to the walls. Vice versa, I can choose to play a 5-man pushing team, but chances of it succeeding become slimmer as the number of carries on the enemy team decrease. Thus, I'm allowed to choose how I want to win a match, instead of being forced to play aggressively all the time.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 1 2010, 4:11 am by Sand Wraith.

My biggest problem with LoL was that laning was completely and absolutely boring with no depth whatsoever. There's no harassing except with spells pretty much every time they're off CD because there's no incentive to advance other than that. You auto-attack your creeps and can get almost every last hit with your eyes closed because the creep damage is so low. If you advance, it's obviously to attack your opponent because you can't deny or draw aggro. You can't trade an autoattack on him for a creep kill because you can't kill the same shit, anyway.

I do appreciate the deviance from DotA to attempt to encourage a more active gameplay style, but they really have noobified it too much for me. There's no real punishment for mistakes because as you said, "it's not a disable fest." Even if you charge into a teamfight like Rambo you'll still get off most if not all of your spells before dying, or if you have a leap you can probably use it and still live. If that's the "ridiculous shit" that can happen in LoL, that's not exciting, it's just stupid. Initiation in HoN is probably the most intricate part of the game and where newbs struggle most, and it's barely even an aspect in LoL because of that and because of how the terrain works.

P.S. - You can do the same "tower focusing" in HoN if you understand how its AI works. Most people don't take the 5 minutes to figure it out, though. Basic rule of thumb is just don't attack it when it's picking a new target and don't be closer to it than any creeps. Tada, HoN now "encourages pushing."

Someone told me that beta accounts are free to play this weekend, so I might make a guest appearance. WoW has been kind of boring me lately, and I'm almost done FFXIII, so I'll need something to do. I only hope time has honed my skills, otherwise, I might be the next FTS.

meh
i usually solo mid with fayde/tb/elec/x ganker

How does the terrain matter? The ramps and los can be fucking retarded, like that ramp from kongor to hellborne ancients. Every inch has a different height apparently that can't see above OR BELOW it, making me believe that ramp is MOUNTAINOUS IN NATURE.
Initiation is very important in LoL. Alistar, Singed, Fiddle, Malphite, etc would like to talk to you.
Remember that spells are generally short cd, so running in guns blazing, sure you can get all your spells off but you will accomplish little, probably die, and not really waste anyone's cd.

A few hits here and there is very incomparable to how LoL is set up. Your statement is retarded.

Sounds like a good way to get bursted down making the team fight a 4v5. Remember spells are low cd so you didn't even accomplish wasting critical spells.



MAYBE this will put things in perspective. If I took HoN and made it so you couldn't die creeps, yes, that would be fucking retarded. HOWEVER, with all the other changes that LoL employs (aggressiveness from lower cds, tower aggro, tower stats, creep numbers, creep stats, + no gold on death + less stuns / disables + lower gold for creep kills + etc) + no creep denies = a whole different system that *works*. If you don't see how, you need to raise the LoL's equivalent of psr (forget the name) till you stop playing shit games.



Says the man who ults a 70 hp hero that I'm currently attacking and has no chance to escape AND zeph is sitting right next to him with half hp. You really should analyze our last replay and see all the complete noob shit you do wrong before raging at me over missed spells, ESPECIALLY volley since my aim has to be built on anticipation of the heroes location like 1.5 seconds after I cast.
If you want to blame your computer than fix your fucking computer ffs.

IN that one game that we lost, we should have just had scout defend while we pushed, we could take them 4v5 as we were doing it constantly. Scout made way too many stupid decisions that game, I bet if he went standard build we would have won. For fun, watch the replay under their heroes and read all the raging going on.


YES! JUST WHAT HON NEEDS! MORE SHIT FLYING ACROSS THE SCREEN + AOE STUNS!

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 1 2010, 3:46 pm by Forsaken Archer.

I was talking about the terrain in LoL. In the maps I've played there are things lining the sides of each lane and every few spaces that you can be concealed by. That makes it ridiculously simple to gank or have 5 people missing who could be absolutely anywhere. Without wards, that's not strategy, that's random. The ramp in HoN in particular that you're talking about is specifically like that (from DotA) to prevent Hellbourne from having an advantage by seeing if the other team is Kongoring. It's the only ramp on the map like that, all the others have a halfway point that determines whether you're "up" or "down."

Those initiators you mentioned aren't initiators. They are just high HP heroes who can lead the charge in and hopefully get focused; that's like saying Rampage or Accursed could be an initiator in HoN. A real initiator does more than start a fight, they either give your team an advantage or can cost your team the fight depending on how well they judge the situation and how precisely they execute.

Give it a try. Especially with a 600 range DPS hero, you can get tons of hits off, then you press H while the tower targets another creep and immediately resume attacking. It's really effective in mid or when people pull in their defensive lane, I do it with Hellbringer and usually have a tower ready to kill with my first ult unless they're pushing back just as hard.

Again, did it with the rocket jumping girl. I'd run in first and blow my CD's then rocket jump out when I was about to die. There's no real "killing blow" spells and so it was easy to predict. The rest of my team would just follow me in and then I'd trail behind them.


I'd love to, but since I was only allowed to play like 6 heroes and they got boring (considering the other team generally had the same ones too) I think even Temple Siege has more diversity. I'm not going to pay for shit like that, added up it's far more than HoN cost. The system might work well in high level games with constant organized ganks and players that actually defend towers that are being killed, I could see that. But at the mid level I was at, it didn't even remotely work and laning was beyond boring. As I said in the LoL topic, I went like 15-4-20 with the hero who can rocket jump in my SECOND GAME. No one in HoN/DotA will ever, ever do that well so quickly. Most people take a couple of dozen games before they can even go positive. I'm fine with games being balanced for a high level, but if the game is stupid at a low-mid level it's not worth playing.

He's Kunkka. Only one real stun and it's AoE+Timed. I think his ult ministuns, though.

for real? What if your beta name is taken?

IMO, Witch Slayer has potential to carry with BoT, Harkon's, Hellflower, Codex, Frostfield Plate, and Charged Hammer. On top of his stuns, the damage amplification from both Harkon's and Hellflower renders magic resistance stacking relatively hopeless, especially with 650 coming from his ultimate, 800 from Codex, 100[?] from FF, and 200 * RNG from Charged Hammer.

Alistar and singed can both throw a hero in any direction, easily making the fight 4v5... like andro. Malphite and ali can both aoe stun, like pest, how is that not initiation? Sure there is no OMFG CHRONOS BUBBLE type spells... so initiation isn't HARDCORE OMFG I GOT MY SPELL OFF NOW EVERYONE DIES but it still exists and it's still important.

Did you see that crazy replay where a Witchslayer plays 5v1 after all his allies left 1 by 1 and wins?

Didn't see but heard, you got a link?

So can Pebbles. It never really works out like that, though, which is why he's considered a poor choice as an initiator.

And I'm just going to ignore SW. But you'd want AC over Frostfield, he needs the IAS even with CH.

pebbles a poor choice as an initiator?
wut
he can instagib a squishy caster/carry to start the battle

Then I'll be secretly hanging out in the SEN channel with a new name, you guys won't even know it's me.

Not after 25 minutes, he can't. And even if he does that, now it's basically a 4v4 because he is completely out of the fight for 10 seconds except for a 2 second CD autoattack. His stun is a 20 second CD, lol. He's a good ganker, but as a teamfight initiator he's terrible, and IP is talking about without even his stun, just a toss.

I don't need IAS when I instagib anything with less than 3k HP.