Well, not really. But in recent years it has been overrun with constant rehashing of the same topics (religion anyone?) and members like devilesk who throw the "law book" of logical argument at anyone they disagree with, or otherwise blast their post for not having Wikipedia-style citations. But also, we are not the community of gentlemen-mappers (I use the term like "gentlemen-explorers" of old, noblemen who dabbled in the military without being career officers or being particularly good at it) we once were, and there is only so much you can do as a moderator to change what people have to say. It might be better now, as to be honest I haven't opened the Serious Discussion forum in a while.

Quote

I have seriously been meaning to organize such an effort in an attempt to examine the growth and eventual splintering of volunteer organizations. I've seen something very similar to the SEN/Maplantis rift happen to the improv comedy sector in Oklahoma City recently. I'm hoping to figure out a solution since my time as president of the film club at my college is coming to an end in April, and I want to leave some advice behind to avoid a similar splintering with the group I helped found. Since I'm on winter break, I may just go through with this.

Yeah, I don't know. But when a group grows beyond a certain size, friendship-based management where everything is done implicitly and indeed for the common good (Communism, essentially) begins to break down. Especially if you have many conflicting ideas or people fight the institution of a bureaucracy to codify government, things fall apart. It's inversely related to the product of the group size and how much sway the group's decisions have on the lives of individual members. Sometimes people can't even manage a group of size two. Look at marriage.

Yay. It seems I'm not the reason that SD is being criticized.

Anyway, I'll just keep hoping that SCII will bring you back, though of all people, you worry me the most in that respect. Don't fade out too quickly.

Yeah, I'd say the problem with larger organizations without some sort of absolute executive command is that people make up that group, and the problem with people is that they aren't perfect (which means they are all different). If everyone is on the same level then there is no singular authority except the majority opinion of the group. Without any singular authority and majority opinion ruling, equally powerful opinions or factions can emerge and enter into stalemate. Larger groups of people need an overruling opinion or power to make decisions, lest stalemate or conflict occur. I think it's as simple as that.

Good luck with life sir, may your endeavors lead you to wherever you want to go

(This is one of those posts that starts off with unrelated crap, and then loosely ties it into the current discussion, all in an attempt to explain my feelings on this matter.)

I'm what I call a "glitchologist": someone who enjoys performing glitches just to perform glitches.

I've been noticed that glitching is way less popular than it used to be. All of the great glitch sites (that I know of) have died off. Many of the great glitchers (that I know of) -- the people that got me interested in glitching for the sake of glitching -- are either gone or inactive. I could drop names and links to dead websites, but it's 3AM and I don't feel like doing so now. But it seems like glitching is dead. I'm still a teenager, but when it comes to glitching,... Sometimes, thinking about it actually makes me feel like one of the last of a dying breed, so to speak. Now, perhaps there is some massive and awesome glitching community out there that I've never heard of. I doubt it.

In any case, (AFAIK) I know what it's like to see and be a member of a "dead" community -- a group of people where most of the websites are dead, many of them aren't even online anymore, where few people care about the activity and even fewer know the basic technical details.

So to see an influential figure in a community leave, particularly when that community isn't dead, but has definitely declined... (No offense, SEN...) It's a terrible thing, man. I"ve never witnessed a great glitcher depart from teh intertubes, but I've seen the aftermaths... This is worse -- it's like being at ground zero right as ground zero is becoming ground zero, so to speak...

At the same time, I've seen a lot of "fossils". I know the names of a lot of great glitchers, despite the fact that I found their sites long after those sites went dead. They left -- in many cases, they left years before I found them -- but they were still a part of the community, they were still known and respected even by people (like myself) who had never interacted with or even witnessed them.

My point?

Good luck with your future endeavors, DT_BK. Maybe you'll fade back in someday. Can't promise I'll be here to witness it if you do return, but I know there'll always be at least a few people who know your name.*

* Well, not always. By the year 8527, there won't be any record of your existence. But you know what I mean.

I'll always remember your CTF DustFort map

Anyways, wow, that was a huge bunch of text... took me pretty long to read.

I am subscribed to SEN since October 2005 and I've seen things, but it seems like either I wasn't really aware, either I am not even young enough to have seen such things.

I wish you the best of lucks in your life. We'll keep faith!

(Let's hope this wakes up the administrators... I still want to see the ''Just here for the pie'' and the Magic Boxes!)

I showed up too late and never got to know the older members. I'm still sorry to see you go. I hate it that I only came into mapping at the begginning of Maplantis. I wanted to know the old Sen and I feel missed out on the good days of mapping. My drive to know everything has abled me to know most things about mapping in a short amount of time, surpassing most mappers abilities, but that really doesn't matter now since the Golden Age has passed and the once thriving community, which I never knew, has withered away. Now with Starcraft II on it's way, the mapping community has further been crippled. Anyways, I hope you do return along with the other greats of Sen upon the arrival of Starcraft II.

Lol, I found that in an old topic. Foreshadowing?

I don't deny it.. like I said this topic is not an announcement of me doing anything, rather it is an acknowledgment that I am not around and much. And believe me, I am taking a break from mafia after this game

Quote

Anyway, I'll just keep hoping that SCII will bring you back, though of all people, you worry me the most in that respect. Don't fade out too quickly.

I can't be too hopeful to that point, simply because I don't know if I will really have the time or interest to do much with SC2. I'll still be around, but I probably won't get back into the mapping scene. But who knows.. when Blizzard finally releases it, anything could have happened.

Like you eating your socks? I could have sworn that the promise was that you would do it if SC2 was announced within three years...

I second this motion!

Really? Golden Age? I don't understand why everyone tries to make this site into some amazing bastion of prosperity and goodness that has faded over the years, leaving mankind with no hopes of redemption, leaving mankind to slowly fade away into the darkness as well...

Is SEN pretty cool? Yeah. Is SEN the earthly manifestation of Heaven? No. It never has been and never will be, and while we should treat it with the respect due to any organization consisting of people who are worthy of respect, isn't it going too far to attribute such lofty sentiments to something which is ultimately a gaming website?

I was refering to the Golden Age to SEN as in it's peak in a mapping point-of-view. I meant nothing to but to show that SEN was better then than it is now.

I think the reason why some of us have a tendency to think of SEN as something more than just a gaming website is because we grew up with it and it might have held some importance for us in the difficult years of adolescence. Just as an example, an analogy might be a park you went to to play with friends often as a child - that park, when you're older, might have some significance for you because of the memories it triggers. Sure, it's just a regular park, but it's a park which you are a part of the history of, and your memories there are shared with other people. If the local authority decided that the park was going to be bulldozed into a parking lot then you might have some strong feelings about it.

In my case, SEN was one of the main communities I was involved in throughout my mid-teens. I had other non-academic interests, such as swimming but (perhaps sadly) they were secondary. I had become quite reclusive in my teenage years for a number of reasons, and for a time, aside from a close circle of friends, communities like SEN were what I directed my social energies towards. So, I cared about what was going on here; I talked to the other members; I contributed in the discussion forums; I made some maps and eventually rose in the community. I felt like I had a stake in it. I looked up to big mapping names of the day, like Bolt_Head and Tux and, damning indictment of my teens it might be, SEN was one of the few positives I could take from that period.

My life has since changed, SEN no longer holds the position of 'community replacement' for me which it once did. However, I still remember those days when I looked forward to map night and enjoyed getting involved in big arguments with people who seemed a lot younger than me in Serious Discussion. Now I'm an adult and I suppose you could say that SEN was part of me growing up.

That is one possible reason why someone might choose to see the website as something more than a website, and wish to preserve it as it was, however futile any attempt to do so might be.

Dtbk, hey I never played SC. You could hang out in null with me still.

I would also like to point out...it is because of some of the things you brought up that I troll freely. I just can't take this site seriously anymore. I would love to say "back in the old days..." but it is kinda hard for me to make that statement, since I have always just been in the Other Forums. I think a more recent promotion in staff may help turn it around, but I can't say that for sure. Regardless, I'd like to still see you around.

You didn't cover your trail well enough, though.
I know one of the Great Secrets of the Universe!

The number of active staff members that I hold even a grudging respect for hasn't grown in a while. Your leaving doesn't help that. You probably don't even know me- I've been around for a while, mostly as a lurker until Temple Siege, though I respected your professionalism. Sorry to see you go, as I'm sorry to see so many of the older names that I knew from my first forays into mapping disappear.

It seems a large majority of older games are falling into this generation gap: multiple Counter-Strike communities that I'm a part of did so as well. It's strange to think of myself as one of the "older crowd" but I find that I belong to it. I was barely if at all into my teen years when I started using online forums, and I'm 21 now... it's very odd to look in such a way and dismiss the newest group of immature kids... I want to ask if it always happens this way but then the obvious stands out: we were the first. Whatever standards for humor and discourse were established are no longer binding. The recent posts in the pictures thread is a prime example of how much of a complete failure a large majority of the members base here is; SEN can't even react to a female and wants to attempt to discuss serious topics, or even more ironically, social issues? Just pathetic, half of the kids here need to go back to their memes and leave this place, which thrives on originality, far behind.

So, in long-winded conclusion, I'm sorry to see you go, though you've already been gone. I too wish the old guard were still in charge.

im still fascinated how people like us can form communities like this on the internet.

share the love for DTBK.
as the title says