Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Theory and Ideas > Topic: Doubly Protecting Maps without EUDS
Doubly Protecting Maps without EUDS
Aug 5 2009, 10:26 pm
By: Madroc
Pages: < 1 2 3 >
 

Aug 6 2009, 6:58 am Madroc Post #21



Well damn, that would probably be way easier. Any way you can get that method?



None.

Aug 6 2009, 7:00 am Excalibur Post #22

The sword and the faith

Quote from Madroc
Well damn, that would probably be way easier. Any way you can get that method?
He's about as likely to publicly reveal it as pigs flying. The second he reveals how it is done it can easily be reversed. I do know some of how it works, but it is not my method, and so I wouldn't feel right teaching others how to undo it, even partially.




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-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

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Aug 6 2009, 7:02 am Madroc Post #23



Quote from Excalibur
Quote from Madroc
Well damn, that would probably be way easier. Any way you can get that method?
He's about as likely to publicly reveal it as pigs flying. The second he reveals how it is done it can easily be reversed. I do know some of how it works, but it is not my method, and so I wouldn't feel right teaching others how to undo it, even partially.
Oh. K then.



None.

Aug 6 2009, 7:34 am O)FaRTy1billion[MM] Post #24

👻 👾 👽 💪

Quote from Falkoner
Another thing you may want to add, SC Character Swap, is a program that swaps out characters a-o(I think) for characters only in the actual StarCraft font that look the same, however, in editors, which don't use SC's font, it makes it difficult to read, even though it looks perfectly normal in game.
The idea for this was actually inspired by my reading somewhere to fill text with unnecessary color characters to make a simple find/replaces not possible.

If protected at all, I'd like the map to still be able to be opened. ;o



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Aug 6 2009, 7:38 am Demented Shaman Post #25



Quote from Excalibur
For the record, Esponeo has shown me a new way of protecting maps that cannot be undone by any mere unprotector. Bypassing it requires a number of modding tools, and even then, is difficult and time consuming. I'd say if anyone has found a protection that has the least drawbacks, he has.

I don't have the specifics to re-create it, but I do have one of the specially protected maps in my possession. I am however not giving it out without his permission.
That's like saying a map can't be stolen if it's never made.

On another note, I too have a protection method that can't be beaten by any unprotector. Of course, I can't use it or give it out yet because once I do it will be easily reversed.



None.

Aug 6 2009, 7:47 am Falkoner Post #26



Quote
He's about as likely to publicly reveal it as pigs flying. The second he reveals how it is done it can easily be reversed. I do know some of how it works, but it is not my method, and so I wouldn't feel right teaching others how to undo it, even partially.

There is at least 1 Korean protector out there currently, that I know of, that cannot be unprotected(as of yet), honestly, most "protection" nowadays is just people managing to find bugs in unprotectors and exploiting those specific bugs.



None.

Aug 6 2009, 8:14 am Forsaken Archer Post #27



Quote from Ahli
my method in my mind:
7. add staredit.net & your name to the map in multiple places (forces is important)
I like this one ^^



None.

Aug 6 2009, 8:22 am Excalibur Post #28

The sword and the faith

Quote from name:Pariah
Quote from Excalibur
For the record, Esponeo has shown me a new way of protecting maps that cannot be undone by any mere unprotector. Bypassing it requires a number of modding tools, and even then, is difficult and time consuming. I'd say if anyone has found a protection that has the least drawbacks, he has.

I don't have the specifics to re-create it, but I do have one of the specially protected maps in my possession. I am however not giving it out without his permission.
That's like saying a map can't be stolen if it's never made.

On another note, I too have a protection method that can't be beaten by any unprotector. Of course, I can't use it or give it out yet because once I do it will be easily reversed.
With respect, I doubt your method is similar to his, and I was very impressed by it. I'd be interested to try my hand at yours too Dev, since he thought me well enough to try his. Esponeo's is outside the box compared to normal methods, but has such a simple concept I was surprised no one had thought of it before.

Quote from Falkoner
Quote
He's about as likely to publicly reveal it as pigs flying. The second he reveals how it is done it can easily be reversed. I do know some of how it works, but it is not my method, and so I wouldn't feel right teaching others how to undo it, even partially.

There is at least 1 Korean protector out there currently, that I know of, that cannot be unprotected(as of yet), honestly, most "protection" nowadays is just people managing to find bugs in unprotectors and exploiting those specific bugs.
Right but this is traditional protection. The method I'm speaking of to my knowledge has not even been considered here on SEN. I doubt the Koreans have tried it, but I have no way to know for sure.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 6 2009, 8:27 am by Excalibur.




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-------------------------
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Aug 6 2009, 8:29 am Falkoner Post #29



Quote
Right but this is traditional protection. The method I'm speaking of to my knowledge has not even been considered here on SEN. I doubt the Koreans have tried it, but I have no way to know for sure.

Honestly, that's a bit of a joke, as unprotection is a simple idea, all it does is take what SC reads and put the editor's sections back in, it's quite fool proof, and my guess is that he has simply been using the wrong unprotectors, since I know that there is a relatively simple protection method that messes up both Unused Unprotector and OS Map 2, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that this is his "amazing" protection.



None.

Aug 6 2009, 9:00 am Excalibur Post #30

The sword and the faith

Quote from Falkoner
Quote
Right but this is traditional protection. The method I'm speaking of to my knowledge has not even been considered here on SEN. I doubt the Koreans have tried it, but I have no way to know for sure.

Honestly, that's a bit of a joke, as unprotection is a simple idea, all it does is take what SC reads and put the editor's sections back in, it's quite fool proof, and my guess is that he has simply been using the wrong unprotectors, since I know that there is a relatively simple protection method that messes up both Unused Unprotector and OS Map 2, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that this is his "amazing" protection.
I assure you this has nothing to do with something so easy and trivial as replacing sections of removed or damaged data.




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-------------------------
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Aug 6 2009, 9:12 am Demented Shaman Post #31



Quote
Session Start (devilesk:SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:14:59 2009
[01:14] SHMIDLEY: So I made some new protection.
[01:15] devilesk: lol
Session Close (SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:15:38 2009


Session Start (devilesk:SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:03 2009
[01:16] SHMIDLEY: My old method from 2006 still beats all unprotectors.
[01:16] SHMIDLEY: But this new one also crashes WinMPQ.
[01:16] devilesk: that's great
Session Close (SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:09 2009


Session Start (devilesk:SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:19 2009
[01:16] SHMIDLEY: And the map cannot be viewed properly in Hex Workshop
Session Close (SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:25 2009


Session Start (devilesk:SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:38 2009
[01:16] devilesk: is your method not making the map?
[01:16] SHMIDLEY: No.
Session Close (SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:46 2009


Session Start (devilesk:SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:51 2009
[01:16] SHMIDLEY: Would you like a copy of the map
[01:16] devilesk: later
[01:16] devilesk: pm me it
Session Close (SHMIDLEY): Wed Feb 25 01:16:59 2009
Yea, as you can see esponeo mentioned the protection to me back in February. Heh, i'm not sure if he ever pmed me it or showed me it on battle.net. I'll have to check.

EDIT:
Oh yea, apparently I did/do have the map.

Quote
Session Start (devilesk:LEGACY WEAPON): Sat Feb 28 14:26:05 2009
[14:26] devilesk: shmidley says he has an unbeatable protection
[14:26] *** Auto-response from LEGACY WEAPON:
[14:26] devilesk: that even crashes hex editors
Session Close (LEGACY WEAPON): Sat Feb 28 14:27:28 2009


Session Start (devilesk:LEGACY WEAPON): Sat Feb 28 14:28:38 2009
[14:28] devilesk: pm'd if you want to take a look at it
Session Close (LEGACY WEAPON): Sat Feb 28 14:29:00 2009


Session Start (devilesk:LEGACY WEAPON): Sat Feb 28 17:08:34 2009
[17:08] LEGACY WEAPON: at this point
[17:08] LEGACY WEAPON: I don't really cafre
[17:08] LEGACY WEAPON: LOL
[17:08] LEGACY WEAPON: considering these things
[17:08] LEGACY WEAPON: 1) New protection methods are being discovered but the % of maps using them is less than 1
[17:09] LEGACY WEAPON: 2) Unprotection is relatively widespread so most people have access to these tools
[17:09] LEGACY WEAPON: 3) People on battle.net don't care what name is on the map, which was the main goal of protection in the first place
[17:10] LEGACY WEAPON: 4) Nobody is really making maps worth unprotecting anyways
[17:10] devilesk: lol
[17:10] LEGACY WEAPON: because the main purpose of map unprotection is to learn things we didn't already know or understand
[17:10] LEGACY WEAPON: everything now is understood, everything that needs to be understood can be unprotected
[17:11] LEGACY WEAPON: nothing new is worth unprotecting can be unprotected
[17:11] devilesk: heinermann said a while ago that
[17:11] LEGACY WEAPON: therefore there's nothing to worry about
[17:11] devilesk: our knowledge of maps is still incomplete
[17:11] devilesk: like stuff about the sections still isn't known
[17:12] LEGACY WEAPON: like what?
[17:12] devilesk: idk
[17:12] LEGACY WEAPON: lol
[17:12] LEGACY WEAPON: the point is
[17:12] LEGACY WEAPON: at this point, it doesn't really matter
Session Close (LEGACY WEAPON): Sat Feb 28 17:12:52 2009




None.

Aug 6 2009, 9:44 am Excalibur Post #32

The sword and the faith

Mm, yeah he showed me it a few months ago as well.

Yes I know that few if any maps actually use the protection, but it exists.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
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Aug 6 2009, 6:56 pm UnholyUrine Post #33



Here's something I wrote.. it's not very informative.. but it should get you into the right perspective on protection

Quote
First of all, ask yourself this question: Is it truly necessary to protect my map?

because protecting your map will stop people from editing and spreading your maps. Although that's what you seemingly want to avoid, allowing people to edit your map will make your map popular, as when they make the changes, they'll try to spread it too. If you're lucky, the editor will give you credit. If not... it's a risk you have to take...
Another thing is that if your map is super complicated (which I assume would be because.. well.. you're a korean-fanatic...), then normal b.netters won't be able to figure out ur triggers and edit it...
Finally, the one thing that makes people protect maps are people that take it and replaces your name with his... Now this is a sensitive area, as people would be very upset if the stolen version got spread, and no one 'acknowledges' your work... But you must first realize that if your map is very popular, then the original version shall prevail. If your map is unpopular, then no one's gonna steal it. It is the mediocre maps that are in danger... Now should u settle for mediocrity? :P ...
Good example would be you thinking "Hero Siege" was made by "Life2Death", an infamous map stealer amongst this forum... Oh btw, he's a smart guy.. He deleted the Warrior, hoping that some idiots will think that the map originally had only 11 heroes, and warrior was added by me and thereby stealing credit. (dude who makes a funky number of "11" heroes.. plus there's a fucking SPACE at the hero selection.. indicating it has ALWAYS been set up for 12 heroes) He also tried to steal my "Snowcraft".. which was kinda a joke as he was trying to frame people on this forum... fortunately I didn't care... as the map was unpopular.. so meh~...

...Also.. if people edit your map, that's probably the most sincere form of flattery, and you should compliment yourself if they do. ( <3 Moose)

Now if you still want to protect your map, do you reallly need a crazy map protector? For me, whenever the map's protected, whether if it's just Starforge protection, or a crazy hex protection, I wouldn't touch it, as 1. it'd be too much of a hassle to unprotect it .. 2. I respect the author's decision.
Usually if u just use a wimpy protector, most ppl'd just ignore it.. unless someone's really out there to get you.. o.O .. or if your map's REALLY good (but again, if it's REALLY good.. then the original ver will prevail)




None.

Aug 6 2009, 8:45 pm Madroc Post #34



OK well I admit I was pretty off in that I thought every map should have as much protection as you can give it.. thanks unholy for posting that.. I know better now.. my apologies to pariah and everyone for my ignorance. I still think that my idea is a good one but that not many people need to or should use it.

I'm still undecided about the permanently inscribing your name though. A question for unholy.. would you have used the name protection method if you'd known about it and known that temple siege would become so popular?




None.

Aug 6 2009, 9:17 pm O)FaRTy1billion[MM] Post #35

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If the map crashes hex editors, why would SC be able to read it? The only way I can think of that working is if you totally corrupted the file within the operating system.



TinyMap2 - Latest in map compression! ( 7/09/14 - New build! )
EUD Action Enabler - Lightweight EUD/EPD support! (ChaosLauncher/MPQDraft support!)
EUDDB - topic - Help out by adding your EUDs! Or Submit reference files in the References tab!
MapSketch - New image->map generator!
EUDTrig - topic - Quickly and easily convert offsets to EUDs! (extended players supported)
SC2 Map Texture Mask Importer/Exporter - Edit texture placement in an image editor!
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Aug 7 2009, 1:04 am Kaias Post #36



The best protection is really quite simple. Just periodically switch back and forth between Scmdraft and Starforge, eventually it will be so screwed up that nothing anyone can do will be able to undo it.

Note: This method may (will) ruin your map. Use at your own discretion.



None.

Aug 7 2009, 1:42 am ClansAreForGays Post #37



Quote from Madroc
I'm still undecided about the permanently inscribing your name though. A question for unholy.. would you have used the name protection method if you'd known about it and known that temple siege would become so popular?[/color]
It would not have become as popular if he did protect it, so the question is null. It's also kind of an inside joke that Urine did protect his map by making his triggers sloppy. Messing with it would be more trouble than it's worth.




Aug 7 2009, 2:08 am Moose Post #38

We live in a society.

Quote from ClansAreForGays
Quote from Madroc
I'm still undecided about the permanently inscribing your name though. A question for unholy.. would you have used the name protection method if you'd known about it and known that temple siege would become so popular?[/color]
It would not have become as popular if he did protect it, so the question is null. It's also kind of an inside joke that Urine did protect his map by making his triggers sloppy. Messing with it would be more trouble than it's worth.
While that may inhibit edits to the triggers, it does nothing to deter simple name replacements.




Aug 9 2009, 9:04 pm Falkoner Post #39



Quote
If the map crashes hex editors, why would SC be able to read it? The only way I can think of that working is if you totally corrupted the file within the operating system.

Agreed, the only way he could possibly be doing it, if it does in actuality crash hex editors, would be if only SC was able to even see it, since it uses its own mini-browser, and it seems to me that if it actually did that, when another person downloaded the map it should be fixed again, I think he is highly overexaggerating this protection.



None.

Aug 14 2009, 11:20 pm Heinermann Post #40

SDE, BWAPI owner, hacker.

MPQ protection would kill off any tool that doesn't directly access storm.dll.
It would also kill off any tool that doesn't correctly access staredit\scenario.chk.

That accounts for almost every tool/unprotector there is, if not all of them.

As far as protection goes, using the alternative alpha characters with a full map compression are your best bets.
Don't overcomplicate things.




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[2024-5-07. : 7:47 pm]
Ultraviolet -- Yeah, I suppose there's something to that
[2024-5-06. : 5:02 am]
Oh_Man -- whereas just "press X to get 50 health back" is pretty mindless
[2024-5-06. : 5:02 am]
Oh_Man -- because it adds anotherr level of player decision-making where u dont wanna walk too far away from the medic or u lose healing value
[2024-5-06. : 5:01 am]
Oh_Man -- initially I thought it was weird why is he still using the basic pre-EUD medic healing system, but it's actually genius
[2024-5-06. : 3:04 am]
Ultraviolet -- Vrael
Vrael shouted: I almost had a heart attack just thinking about calculating all the offsets it would take to do that kind of stuff
With the modern EUD editors, I don't think they're calculating nearly as many offsets as you might imagine. Still some fancy ass work that I'm sure took a ton of effort
[2024-5-06. : 12:51 am]
Oh_Man -- definitely EUD
[2024-5-05. : 9:35 pm]
Vrael -- I almost had a heart attack just thinking about calculating all the offsets it would take to do that kind of stuff
[2024-5-05. : 9:35 pm]
Vrael -- that is insane
[2024-5-05. : 9:35 pm]
Vrael -- damn is that all EUD effects?
[2024-5-04. : 10:53 pm]
Oh_Man -- https://youtu.be/MHOZptE-_-c are yall seeing this map? it's insane
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