Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Terrain > Topic: Installation Tileset Vision Question
Installation Tileset Vision Question
Dec 18 2015, 6:31 pm
By: Spooky  

Dec 18 2015, 6:31 pm Spooky Post #1



Hey guys, I realize this portion of the site is pretty much dead, but I was hoping someone could help me with a map making issue I am having.

I'm using SCMDraft in the Installation tileset to make a sort of RPG map, but I'm having issues with vision in relation to my terrain. I am placing single tile walls to use as barriers, and I don't want any ground units owned by the player to be able to see past the walls. However, When units are standing on "floor" tiles they can see over any wall that I place. It doesn't matter which part of the wall I use, or at least, it doesn't seem to matter.

Now, when I use something other than "floor" tiles for the unit to stand on (like substructure etc) the walls seem to do their job, and I can't see past them. Is the "floor" tile classified as high ground for some reason? Is there a wall tile I could use that a unit would not be able to see past when standing on the "floor" tiles?

Thank you all for your help!



None.

Dec 18 2015, 7:13 pm jjf28 Post #2

Cartography Artisan

There's low-ground (green), med-ground (blue), and high-ground (red) tiles in StarCraft (darkened for unwalkables).

The space tileset definitely has all three levels, and some 'floor' is high ground.

If you wish to see the elevations of these tiles you can do so in Chkdraft with View->Terrain->Display Tile Elevations. You can select tiles to see their image through the elevation preview.





Rs_yes-im4real - Clan Aura - jjf28.net84.net

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

Dec 18 2015, 8:19 pm Spooky Post #3



Quote
There's low-ground (green), med-ground (blue), and high-ground (red) tiles in StarCraft (darkened for unwalkables).

The space tileset definitely has all three levels, and some 'floor' is high ground.

If you wish to see the elevations of these tiles you can do so in Chkdraft with View->Terrain->Display Tile Elevations. You can select tiles to see their image through the elevation preview.

Thanks for the help, but, I know about elevations. That's actually why I'm confused/stuck. Using this link I see that the floor tile is medium and roof is high, so there is no reason a unit should be able to see past a roof tile while on a floor tile, but they do. This is my problem. :/



None.

Dec 18 2015, 8:56 pm jjf28 Post #4

Cartography Artisan

Oh you said installation, that's my bad. A good first step to solving this problem would be confirming the elevations of specific tiles are as expected though.

Within tileset indexed, This tile is high ground, could try it.

Attaching the map would help us see/solve the problem :)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 18 2015, 9:02 pm by jjf28.



Rs_yes-im4real - Clan Aura - jjf28.net84.net

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

Dec 18 2015, 9:13 pm Spooky Post #5



Thanks for the help again, I'll post the map up and we can see if I can't get this figured out. You can see different places where I've been trying different tile combinations both as ground, and as a wall. If I could just find a "wall" tile that can't be seen past that would be awesome. For some reason, I have found a few that you can't see past when looking to the right, but the same is not true for the other directions. Thanks again for the help.

Attachments:
zombie terrain.scm
Hits: 3 Size: 29.82kb



None.

Dec 18 2015, 11:28 pm jjf28 Post #6

Cartography Artisan

Here's a picture of your map's elevations (and one for comparison).



Tile 1044 which you've used to outline these areas is med-ground, was this the intent? If this is your '1-tile wall' tile then you should select a high-ground tile.



Rs_yes-im4real - Clan Aura - jjf28.net84.net

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

Dec 18 2015, 11:53 pm Spooky Post #7



Quote from jjf28
Here's a picture of your map's elevations (and one for comparison).



Tile 1044 which you've used to outline these areas is med-ground, was this the intent? If this is your '1-tile wall' tile then you should select a high-ground tile.

Man, you are putting a lot of work into helping me, thank you!

Tile 1044 is the tile I liked the most as far as aesthetics go, so it's the one I wanted to use as the initial outline. If you look at some other parts of the map, though, I have high ground tiles used as a sort of second outline surrounding tile 1044. 2068 and 2148 are the most recent attempts. They work fine, up until I move my zergling to a "floor" tile. Then I can see right past them, even though they are high ground. Is this just the nature of the game, or is there a workaround?



None.

Dec 20 2015, 8:48 am Butch Post #8

PROFESSIONAL MAP MAKER

Its really not complicated



As you can see the only wall that will block vision for floor tiles is the category of tiles called "roof". Use a subtile of that to block vision for units standing on "floor"



None.

Dec 20 2015, 2:43 pm Spooky Post #9



Quote from Butch
Its really not complicated



As you can see the only wall that will block vision for floor tiles is the category of tiles called "roof". Use a subtile of that to block vision for units standing on "floor"

That's exactly the problem, though. It SHOULD be simple, but it's not. Please check these screenshots. I'm using roof terrain to surround the walls. Why can I see past it to the null terrain, and floor terrain, on the other side? If I put enemies on the other side I can see them plain as day. Those are "roof" tiles being used, so vision should be blocked, no? This is what I'm asking.






Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 20 2015, 3:40 pm by Spooky.



None.

Dec 20 2015, 4:02 pm jjf28 Post #10

Cartography Artisan

I know you can see to the top of 'cliffs' (and see units whose graphics overlap the edge) that are higher than the ground you're on but you shouldn't be able to see past them; perhaps if you put a walkable tile inbetween two cliff pieces you would form a barrier you couldn't see past; could also prolly find two tiles s.t. half their area is walkable and samwich that between them (you prolly won't find a single tile w/ that effect).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 20 2015, 4:36 pm by jjf28.



Rs_yes-im4real - Clan Aura - jjf28.net84.net

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

Dec 21 2015, 2:50 am Butch Post #11

PROFESSIONAL MAP MAKER

The vision bleeds over onto the next tile in most (if not, all) cases. Use a double layer of the roof tile? This might be because the walls that sit on the floor subtiles block vision in the same way that a tree in jungle does. Like an object that you cant see past. I'm not sure entirely how it works. If placing a double layer of roof tiles doesn't work then there might just be no way around it.



as you can see the vision starts to get blocked around the top rim of the wall type tile and bleeds on over to the actual walkable roof tiles. I think this was intended by the programmers because otherwise it would be weird to walk around in a map and not be able to see the sides of walls and cliffs. Try using a double layer of roof tiles.



None.

Dec 21 2015, 3:30 am O)FaRTy1billion[MM] Post #12

👻 👾 👽 💪

Can you see on to the roof tiles from substructure tiles? In the tile group data roof tiles apparently have a height of 0... I figured this value was basically meaningless since the minitiles have the height that seems to actually be used, but maybe it has something to do with it.

EDIT:
Oh, I didn't look closely enough at the screenshot (fog on null is hard to see).

Ya, looks like you just need to create thicker walls.



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