The idea is to not screw anyone over in the transition. It would be unfair to poison to change the system with no forewarning and have him lose his spot.

Sad that needed to be explained, really.

Besides, poison hasn't hosted in over two years. That's an even better reason.

Has it really been two years? Damn, coulda sworn....now that I think about it I have been around SEN for at least two years. Feels like way less.

Personally, I don't care if the list is scrapped or not, as long as there's some sort of logical system. Also, I don't care if someone (AKA Kame) makes a flash mafia between now and early 2013, as I anticipate my mafia will start sometime in the first week of January.

Long story short, maintain status quo SEN, maintain status quo.

EDIT: I went ahead and took the liberty of letting SEN decide via the ever-fair polling option. Yes, the comrade Azrael bit was intended to be a funny, not an indication of his political persuasion nor that of those preferring his method.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 19 2012, 5:30 am by poison_us.

You have an interesting definition of "worked" lol.

It's more like "been trying to make it work for more than one game at a time with almost no success due to no better alternatives".

I voted for wasting my vote because you called me a commie

Also, I wouldn't consider speed Mafia to count towards hosting order. Considering how fast they are, people can just host speed Mafia games whenever they feel like it It doesn't really impact normal games at all.

How is calling Azrael a commie a joke?

In a poll, normally the poll at least makes attempts to remove bias. I took the indication you made

Quote from Fire_Kame

Jesus Azrael. Its a forum game not a soviet bread line.

and continued the communist detail. It's a joke because it shouldn't have any effect on voting, and I need to actually state it's a joke for SOME people out there. I'm predicting more people will vote for his option anyway, but that's just me.

EDIT: Just voted myself, and I can see the other category was a mistake.

I'm all for letting those who haven't hosted recently go before those who have.

lol, it was a joke....because Az is so obviously a communist...

very conclusive poll!

Though Devlin, Wing and poison need to explain what "other" method they have in mind.

I personally voted for other because it's obligatory. I have no preference actually.

The reason for the new system is to satisfy the constant demand for it, and that demand was due to the consistent failure of the "stake your claim 6-12 months ahead of time" method. Deciding host order by something as arbitrary as "who saw the sign-up thread first" and letting some people host 2-3 times for every 1 time of someone else because the list keeps getting restarted is just dumb.

Anyways, it doesn't really need to be called "Azrael's system" since it doesn't matter who came up with it, and it's a bit too simple to warrant celebrating it as someone's invention. A more informative way of describing it would be "Letting whoever's gone the longest without hosting host". That sums it up pretty thoroughly.

:\ until you brought it up, I hadn't heard anyone complain about their place in line.

I stated a long time ago I'd start working on a new system, due to the fact no one likes this list-keeping shit.

I get that you haven't been around long enough to understand that these lists are extremely ineffective. I understand you've yet to experience how badly these lists work; people constantly switching spots, failing to follow through, not being able to finish or even start their game because it came at an inconvenient time, hosts no longer being active members when their turn comes up, people hosting much more frequently than anyone else because they keep adding themselves to the list, people forgetting who is on the list, people ignoring who is on the list because it isn't fair, people just making a new list because the old one is deemed irrelevant, and the list goes on.

I know that you have yet to see how poorly these lists work, how inefficiently and unfairly they operate, how much work goes into maintaining them, and how quickly they become completely irrelevant over time.

I feel like the list need not be written in stone and that with a proper amount of discernment a player can easily figure out whether or not the host is going to be able to follow through. Hence why I made the speed mafia thread - it wouldn't step on anyone's toes to do it.

I don't see how this is frustrating to wait or to not know. Maybe just add a rule if a week fter a mafia game is ended the next host does not respond or show up, then move to the next person in line. But I guess I assumed that would be more of an implied rule, something that anyone of average intelligence would be able to figure out "hey the next madia is in an indefinite a coma, do you think we should skip them?"

On a remotely related note, speed mafia has been cancelled - although I'd appreciate being placed after raitaki, putting me at the end of the list would also be fine

Adding a lot of rules and procedures to try to make the old, broken, obsolete method have the most basic functionality is pointless, and it still doesn't work. We have a better, easier, simpler, more effective, more efficient, more relevant, more fair system now. There's nothing wrong with it, it has every advantage over previously used methods.

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by saying you refuse to try a new system, when you've never even experienced the failures of the old one. It sounds incredibly ignorant. Those who have been exposed to the "make a list in five minutes to determine the schedule for the next 12 months" method aren't going to continue using something which has never worked well at any point, not when they're presented with something that will obviously work, and work well at that.

How about, when you're actually ready to host a Mafia game, you just say so and you'll get the next slot. Until then, you don't need to worry about it.

It isn't that I'll cling to the old system, but I'll probably never host. and will most likely go back to my lol rpgs.

And are we really getting so ingrained into this argument we are resolving to personal attacks?

How is this any different than the system we already have in place? And seriously, why are we arguing about this? If I'm the only person who wants the "old" way that's fine. I didn't realize we were necessitating a srs bsns debate.

Quote from Fire_Kame

And are we really getting so ingrained into this argument we are resolving to personal attacks?

It already was for him. The entire previous post (starts "I stated a long time ago..." [in a galaxy far, far away]) makes it seem excessively patronizing. Seems like the whole tone in the post was "now now, I'm more experienced and thus my word is law".

Regardless, there's no point in "discussing" this anymore. It'll just turn into another "lol, everything about this is better kthxbai". So far, the majority clearly believe Azrael's time-based method is better, so I'm gonna update this with the list of future hosts whenever I wake up. I've gone over 48 hours with only 3 hours sleep, and I can't think straight.

Anyways, Crack Mafia has been cancelled due to lack of interest, so you can pop me back into the end of the list, or take me off it entirely if it will make the new system happen faster.

Hey, guys, look at this http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=15082 and tell me what you guys think. It's pretty cool, and it actually makes it impossible to tell what faction someone is just from demanding their role PM since you actually get to pick roles. What do you think?

I might make some changes to the game, such as shortening and/or removing some of DEFCON 5+4, or maybe even merge it, since we don't talk much in SEN mafia (other forums do, just look at their page count). DEFCON 3-1 will of course last a few days at best. Nukes will also prolly be reduced to 48 hours travelling before impact and 24 hours for the launcher to abort it.

A lack of verbiage in the role PM would also avoid the "must share PM" mentality. If everyone's role is "You are [blank]. Please see the OP to learn more about your role." Then anyone could pretend to be anything.

I think the link is broken for me


Yeah, if someone doesn't want the role PMs to be part of the game, that's all they have to do. I believe that's how Inferno did it, among others. The host should account for these things in their setup. Different hosts address it in different ways; in my game, I gave the Beguiler the Town role PMs, so they could use them to help disguise themselves if people started asking for PMs.

With the kind of role PMs used in this game, they wouldn't even need to be written for the Mafia; if the Mafia could see some examples, they'd be able to fabricate their own. Back in my day, we used to fake our own role PMs, now the host just hands them to you. The youngin's in this new generation are spoiled something terrible.