Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Custom Maps > Topic: Temple Siege 2
Temple Siege 2
Sep 21 2010, 12:59 am
By: UnholyUrine
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Nov 16 2010, 3:24 am close.ads Post #81



Quote from name:FaZ-
Quote
No, the possibilities in TS is endless and that's what makes it come out on top of all the popular DoTA out there back in the days. It's the balance of everything that made all the possibilities possible. The more factors you integrate in, the harder it is to balance and will thus limit the chances of players find new stuff.

The same thing happened in TS, it just took longer because the pool of players playing it seriously was way, way less and it was around for a lot less time. And yes, I've told myself many times not to get HP for medic because it's stupid, lol. Every hero has their established build, just like DotA, but there are also some varieties allowed, just like DotA. It's just much less discrete because after a while each hero turns out about the same, anyway.

:D HP for medic is actually quite situational. I have only seen it succeed once but sure it can work.

Quote from Neki
All of these preferences and ideas you have are old hold-overs from the old limited capabilities of the Starcraft 1 editor. The Starcraft 2 editor is so much more powerful, why not utilize it? The people clammering for a Gateway casting system make me :lol:

I'm not saying don't add new features, but don't add too much features----item feature is simply too much to beginners. I like DoTA style maps but it's always the freaking huge amount of items that you can choose which throws me off. By the time I finished reading all the item description our base is often destroyed (ok a bit too much here, but it's too late to play ANYWAYS)

And if you want higher attack there is always the "Upgrade weapons/armor" feature, so items will definitely be some gimmicky stuff which is soooo hard to remember if you pit too many of them in the game. You will get newbs spending the first minute reading up the description...and remember, TS is a very fast paced game compared to DoTA, so while 3 minutes early game isn't too much of an issue for DOTA games as spawns aren't out yet, it is in TS...(remember the golden 40 second back in TS?)



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Nov 20 2010, 8:09 pm payne Post #82

:payne:

I've heard the project was dead. Is it true? >_>



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Nov 21 2010, 5:21 am UnholyUrine Post #83



Where'd you hear that from?

At most it is suspended...
remember this is just theorycrafting right now.. And I don't even know how to map on SC2 yet :D



None.

Nov 23 2010, 7:19 am Neki Post #84



Quote from close.ads
Quote from name:FaZ-
Quote
No, the possibilities in TS is endless and that's what makes it come out on top of all the popular DoTA out there back in the days. It's the balance of everything that made all the possibilities possible. The more factors you integrate in, the harder it is to balance and will thus limit the chances of players find new stuff.

The same thing happened in TS, it just took longer because the pool of players playing it seriously was way, way less and it was around for a lot less time. And yes, I've told myself many times not to get HP for medic because it's stupid, lol. Every hero has their established build, just like DotA, but there are also some varieties allowed, just like DotA. It's just much less discrete because after a while each hero turns out about the same, anyway.

:D HP for medic is actually quite situational. I have only seen it succeed once but sure it can work.

Quote from Neki
All of these preferences and ideas you have are old hold-overs from the old limited capabilities of the Starcraft 1 editor. The Starcraft 2 editor is so much more powerful, why not utilize it? The people clammering for a Gateway casting system make me :lol:

I'm not saying don't add new features, but don't add too much features----item feature is simply too much to beginners. I like DoTA style maps but it's always the freaking huge amount of items that you can choose which throws me off. By the time I finished reading all the item description our base is often destroyed (ok a bit too much here, but it's too late to play ANYWAYS)

And if you want higher attack there is always the "Upgrade weapons/armor" feature, so items will definitely be some gimmicky stuff which is soooo hard to remember if you pit too many of them in the game. You will get newbs spending the first minute reading up the description...and remember, TS is a very fast paced game compared to DoTA, so while 3 minutes early game isn't too much of an issue for DOTA games as spawns aren't out yet, it is in TS...(remember the golden 40 second back in TS?)

While I do agree that item features can be a bit overwhelming at first, the ability to use items allows you to customize and stylize your hero so much that it'd be a shame to not have some sort of item system. Basically it allows you to build your hero any way you see fit, using the abilities as a complement to your item build, rather than your abilities defining who you are. Also, of course, the first couple minutes you spend in a brand new game will be overwhelming regardless of if items are present. That's why you either play by yourself, or you play casually with your friends to get a feel for it. You shouldn't be expecting someone to be mastering the hero and interface in one map try, it'll take a while. Even without items, it takes a couple of games to feel the hero's speed, attack animation, his abilities and just his general playstyle.



None.

Nov 24 2010, 3:13 pm Dungeon-Master Post #85



Is this map on route or is it still just paper works?



None.

Nov 24 2010, 7:04 pm UnholyUrine Post #86



Paper works, unfortunately. :(

Quote from Neki
While I do agree that item features can be a bit overwhelming at first, the ability to use items allows you to customize and stylize your hero so much that it'd be a shame to not have some sort of item system. Basically it allows you to build your hero any way you see fit, using the abilities as a complement to your item build, rather than your abilities defining who you are.

Wouldn't it work better the other way, where the Abilities allow you to customize and build your hero the way you see fit, while using items as a complement to your ability build, rather than your items defining who you are?

I'm confused, but I can finally see a reason as to why DOTA can pass with almost 100 heroes... (because their abilities don't define them)



None.

Nov 24 2010, 7:12 pm Jack Post #87

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Quote from UnholyUrine
Paper works, unfortunately. :(

Quote from Neki
While I do agree that item features can be a bit overwhelming at first, the ability to use items allows you to customize and stylize your hero so much that it'd be a shame to not have some sort of item system. Basically it allows you to build your hero any way you see fit, using the abilities as a complement to your item build, rather than your abilities defining who you are.

Wouldn't it work better the other way, where the Abilities allow you to customize and build your hero the way you see fit, while using items as a complement to your ability build, rather than your items defining who you are?
That's how it works. For example, in league of legends you wouldn't try make ryze go tank or dps. He's a mage with 4 spells that when done together are an awesome nuke, but he's like a glass cannon. So the items you get would all be mage items like ability power increases, mana regen, and mana max. Not hp atk etc.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Nov 24 2010, 7:23 pm Neki Post #88



The thing about LoL is, you basically spam abilities to do all your damage because it's on such a short cooldown. Auto-attacking in LoL is such an afterthought because you'll be doing so much damage in such little time with abilities compared to your normal attack. In HoN or DotA, your abilities are on longer cooldowns and steeper costs, but rather are used to complement your auto-attacking through the use of stuns, slows and dots, which is a style I feel works much better because there is less button mashing. Because of this, item builds are usually used to enhance your attacks or provide disables or used to provide a bigger mana pool that you can use the more often.



None.

Nov 24 2010, 8:18 pm OlimarandLouie Post #89



How about items that have a certain amount of uses or last a certain amount of time before vanishing?



None.

Dec 19 2010, 7:11 am NinjaOtis Post #90



Quote from close.ads
Please, please do not add items.

Temple Siege in BW is my favorite map because of the low starter's curve where individual's skill is more emphasized instead of remembering certain build/combination of spells. You can never see the term "Power XX", "Mana XX", "HP XX", etc in ANY of the other DoTA style games. Every single freakin' game of those it's people sticking to a finite style because it performs 'best' and everything else is just a waste of time.

Have you ever have told yourself "Don't go L4 with special ops it's BS!" or "Don't get HP for medic it's stupid!".

No, the possibilities in TS is endless and that's what makes it come out on top of all the popular DoTA out there back in the days. It's the balance of everything that made all the possibilities possible. The more factors you integrate in, the harder it is to balance and will thus limit the chances of players find new stuff.

My suggestion: It's better to start off simple, with as little features around when it's first released. Then, update around once a week or once a month, each patch bringing up new features such as cliff jump and cliff walk instead of throwing 9,001 new stuff in the face of the players. Many will be too focused on the gimmicky stuffs and totally forget playing and get completely owned because they thought 'new stuff = win', and get discouraged. (Take a look at zealot frenzy---every time a new hero comes out everyone goes batshit crazy and then quit the game)

P.S. I think 4v4 is the limit here, even though I prefer the old 3v3-----the popularity system works in a way that the more players needed = less played = lower popularity. Look at how stupid maps like unit_tester got to the top of list because it's single player...

Also, waiting for 12 people to join the game when that map is on the second page is a pain in the ass...unless you get a whole crap load of people to all find and join the game, start and leave and start and leave for 12 hours straight...

Agreed.

Limit game to 3v3 or 4v4, beginning popularity, as closed.ads said, is paramount to solidifying TS's place in SC2, if there is popular demand of a larger team match later on in its existence, allow for 5v5, even 6v6 at the most. The balancing of this game is of the utmost importance.

Simplicity is brilliance. Why conform to the entirely unoriginal DotA-style map when you can create a game, although not highly item-intensive, that stays true to what TS is and what it should be. There IS a reason that it is such a popular UMS map on SC1, and there is nothing wrong with old ideas and improving on them instead of starting with a new slate. More heros, improved/original spells, more balancing, new terrain with similar resemblence to current TS.

Let TS'ers who've experienced the game for years give input.

People who don't even play TS, understand what it is, or care about it need to get the f**k off this forum topic.
*cough* neki *cough*



None.

Dec 19 2010, 5:06 pm ClansAreForGays Post #91



Quote from name:Vortex-
People who don't even play TS, understand what it is, or care about it need to get the f**k off this forum topic.
*cough* neki *cough*
"No Vortex, you are the demons"
And then Vortex was Maxx.




Dec 19 2010, 9:07 pm ShredderIV Post #92



Nah, vortex is way too nice to be compared to maxx...



None.

Dec 26 2010, 9:23 pm CheeZ Post #93



Quote from fat_flying_pigs
Throw in some damn easter eggs.


Seconded.. is that a word? (:



None.

Jan 1 2011, 9:15 am StarBlue Post #94



I say we keep it at 3v3, to keep lag at a minimum, and because I like that number :awesome:
I also think the middle entrance to the bases should be wider than the side entrances, but have more cannons. That way, people may find it easier to go to the side, but then get trapped by spawn and shot down by cannons :awesome: I ALSO think we should name some units after SEN members, just because we can :awesome:
This game 'gonna be :awesome:



None.

Jan 4 2011, 8:38 pm NinjaOtis Post #95



Quote from StarBlue
I say we keep it at 3v3, to keep lag at a minimum, and because I like that number

Yes, maybe 4v4

Quote from StarBlue
I also think the middle entrance to the bases should be wider than the side entrances, but have more cannons. That way, people may find it easier to go to the side, but then get trapped by spawn and shot down by cannons

No, that's retarded


Quote from StarBlue
I ALSO think we should name some units after SEN members, just because we can

I guess.. wouldn't make any sense though... name should relate to spells



None.

Jan 4 2011, 8:49 pm DevliN Post #96

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

Quote from name:Vortex-
Quote from StarBlue
I ALSO think we should name some units after SEN members, just because we can

I guess.. wouldn't make any sense though... name should relate to spells
I sincerely hope this doesn't happen.



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Jan 4 2011, 10:20 pm StarBlue Post #97



Devlin-

Spell 1: massive facepalm -spawn 6 short lived zerglings-
spell 2: majik box h4x -automatically gain 140 minerals
spell 3: Admin Powers -win the game-

You're right... Administrators would be OP in this DOTA



None.

Jan 4 2011, 10:42 pm DevliN Post #98

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

Quote from StarBlue
Devlin-

Spell 1: massive facepalm -spawn 6 short lived zerglings-
spell 2: majik box h4x -automatically gain 140 minerals
spell 3: Admin Powers -win the game-

You're right... Administrators would be OP in this DOTA
Or http://www.staredit.net/topic/12899/



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Jan 5 2011, 8:08 pm NinjaOtis Post #99



Quote from StarBlue
You're right... Administrators would be OP in this DOTA

Yea remember TS isn't just another DotA, please don't offend me and other TS'ers.


I heard rumors there was terrain, is this true? Can the public preview it??



None.

Jan 6 2011, 12:36 am Jack Post #100

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Quote from name:Vortex-
I heard rumors there was terrain, is this true? Can the public preview it??
There's terrain, but it's not complete, so no. It's possible we'll let people have a look when it's in a more complete, doodaded form.

Incidentally don't expect any huge progress for the next few months, there's numerous things slowing us down which we won't go into detail about, so don't expect a beta for a while.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

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