Protection vs Unprotection Discussion (Topic)

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Protection vs Unprotection Discussion

Sep 19 2007, 5:46 pm
By:

mikelat

Pages: < 1 2 3 4 5 … 20 >

Sep 20 2007, 7:42 am Kenoli Post #41

I think you're blowing this topic way out of proportion, DT.

One or two people editing maps against the rules doesn't really harm the community. Teaching members to respect each other is pretty easy. Removing those who don't learn is even easier.

Disallowing discussion or distribution of OSMAP over Staredit does not make or break the supposed rights of a map maker.
Such censorship is not necessary or desirable. It is crass and rude.

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Sep 20 2007, 8:08 am

The Starport Post #42

I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

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Sep 20 2007, 8:25 am Kenoli Post #43

Quote

I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

Yeah, they apparently still think it's a problem or something like that.

None.

Sep 20 2007, 10:12 am Moogle Post #44

Predator of Bed Chambers

Many new comers whom have just brought or been given Starcraft try to take the easy short cuts in map making by using a 3rd party program to look at the map and learn how he or she did triggers for the map. Sometimes it leads to the map being edited or .. taken away from original creator. Protecting your map stops people editing your map and releasing a crap load of version, which annoys the user a lot.

Pretty much old days Protection was the way of stopping editing of your map, If you wanted people to edit your map you'll just leave i unprotected. These days kinda changes the way it happens.

Too me doesn't matter my maps are always unprotected since couldn't careless if someone edited it or not because my map will be spread across a number of forums that a lot of people visit.

Protection vs UnProtection, all depends on the user. Some like it, some don't. Others abuse it.

If all else fails, crowbar the fucker

Sep 20 2007, 11:26 am

mikelat Post #45

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

Yeah. We're having it again so I can gather everybodies feedback. Some peoples views have changed since SEN was down.

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Sep 20 2007, 12:30 pm

JaFF Post #46

In the ideal community, the mapper's wishes are respected not because he protected his map, but because the community around him is mature. Of course, SC is a game, and the majority of fans are 13-16 years old, so there will always be little jerks here and there.

We should quickly ban those who don't respect the author's rights, and don't get upset about a fiew kids pissing on our work (yes, the last part sounds really hard). The mapper can always prove that he's the one who made a map, and he will get due respect if the map was good. I think we should fight the shit-people, instead of the shit-program. Wouldn't it be great to live a life, and not close the front door on two locks from fear of being robbed every night?

You may say 'OMG WHAT ABOUT NOOBS IN BATTLE.NET?!'. Well, I don't count them as people at all. (j/k) I think there are two possible ways:
-Ignore. 99.99% of them won't rate your map, won't remember your name, won't care, won't even know when to say 'wow' even if a uber-cool trigger system/idea/piece of terrain hit them in the face.
-Release a protected version to Battle.net, and an unprotected version at Maplantis/SEN.

Both unprotection and protection can be useful. If you need those programs, you can get them.

As for hosting protectors/unprotectors on SEN/Maplantis, I think it's either none or both.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 20 2007, 12:41 pm by JaFF.

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Sep 20 2007, 1:47 pm

Sie_Sayoka Post #47

Quote

I'm pretty sure everyone here knows where to get osmap. So making it public available here would only give SEN more control over a user's right to protect their maps. Sounds strange, right?
It will all boil down to a little check mark in your map editing section, do you or do you not wish people to edit your maps? Of course, people can very easily disobey that rule, but they'll be damned if they host it on SEN. And, judging from SC's play list, most of the people who actually care about maps are right here. And I'd at least hope everyone here would honor another person's wishes to keep their map protected or not.

Im alright with that, as long as you punish bastard map stealers.

None.

Sep 20 2007, 2:33 pm

DT_Battlekruser Post #48

Quote

One or two people editing maps against the rules doesn't really harm the community. Teaching members to respect each other is pretty easy. Removing those who don't learn is even easier.

Disallowing discussion or distribution of OSMAP over Staredit does not make or break the supposed rights of a map maker.

-One or two people can harm the community if they steal maps en masse.
-Sadly teaching people to respect each other is probably the hardest thing there is in the world.
-Banned or not, people who have been given OSMAP off SEN can still steal maps. You will argue that people could get OSMAP and do this anyway, and while that is true, there's no reason for SEN, as the biggest UMS site on earth, to add to the problem by pointing every new member right to OSMAP.

Again, it's like hacks. Whether SEN hosts maphack, mineral hack, etc. or not, I can still go online, download them, and hack. Therefore hacking is inevitable, so we might as well host hacks. Right? RIGHT?!? Same logic.

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

Yeah, apparently people weren't happy with Moose's moral conclusion last time..

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Sep 20 2007, 2:48 pm

Sael Post #49

Except DTBK, that OSMAP does have its uses. You can deny all you want that the pro-OSMAP group has made (a few) good points, whereas hacks do nothing to... you know what, your examples are so varied they are incomparable. LW must have thought it ahead to know that idiots would steal maps with his program just as we know that they have and will continue to do so. Short of making him stop updating OSMAP and then developing an even better form of protection, we can really do nothing at all for mappers. Besides, this is all for SC1. Are we going to go through the same debates for SC2 (though I'm hoping the coding is too complex for LW to create an unprotector)?

In the end, you have to realize popularity for SC1 is slipping. How many of us are geared up for SC2 without thinking much about the original anymore?

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Sep 20 2007, 4:34 pm Kellimus Post #50

Edit: So I really hate this broken quote BS....

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

[20:40:21] LegacyWeapon: {{removed}} is my number one bug reporter
[20:40:48] LegacyWeapon: because he mass unprotects maps to extract the sounds
[20:40:57] Moose: Lol?
[20:41:03] Moose: You use an MPQ viewer for that
[20:41:07] LegacyWeapon: Hah
[20:41:28] LegacyWeapon: Moose, have you ever looked inside a MPQ that's been shadow protected?
[20:41:40] Moose: Nope
[20:41:43] LegacyWeapon: Everything is unknown.
[20:41:50] Moose: I've never wanted sounds from a shadow protected maps
[20:42:03] Moose: Are the files still listed?
[20:42:05] LegacyWeapon: Nope
[20:42:26] Moose: I don't even know what Shadown Protector is
[20:42:56] Moose: Shadow*
[20:43:18] LegacyWeapon: Why do you want me to stop updating OSMAP2
[20:43:29] LegacyWeapon: Tell me again please.
[20:43:43] Moose: But I'm sure whoever made it, assuming it was made after OSMAP, did it to thwart it, not to go "LOL I WILL HIED MY SOUNDZ FOREVER"
[20:45:40] Moose: Nothing I haven't stated in http://www.maplantis.org/index.php?topic=1015
[20:45:57] LegacyWeapon: Why should I stop updating. I've already made the program.
[20:47:27] Moose: There was never a necessity for it
[20:47:37] Moose: The fact that you've started it means you have to see it through forever?
[20:48:53] LegacyWeapon: I'm simply fixing problems that I'm encoutering
[20:49:31] Moose: They're only problems because you label them so
[20:50:05] LegacyWeapon: Alright
[20:51:34] Moose: There's also the issue of whether or not intellectual rights to a map exist... you and a bunch of other people believing they do not exist does not make that so.
[20:52:03] Moose: Likewise
[20:52:13] Moose: Neither does me or anyone else believing they do make them exist....
[20:52:33] LegacyWeapon: Okay
[20:52:34] Moose: Leading that to a dead end, other than the fact that you've got the stronger weapons
[20:56:34] Moose: Which essentially means
[20:56:40] Moose: OSMAP is following "might makes right"
[20:56:54] LegacyWeapon: I guess so.

---

[21:04:20] Cheeze: subsubpoint #2 the compression sucks.
[21:04:26] Moose: I like how* {{correction for this transcript}} you combine compression and open source
[21:04:39] LegacyWeapon: Thanks
[21:04:39] Moose: You certainly couldn't restore OSMAP's compression to the map's original state
[21:04:45] Moose: More than you could any other compressor's.....
[21:05:02] Cheeze: yeah ok i need to think before i make arguments, SRY moose lul
[21:05:04] Cheeze: calc help pls

[21:05:16] Moose: If that's what you mean by sucks

[21:05:27] Moose: Like... going against the main intention of the program LOL

Wow, I did the exact same kind of thing and got banned for it, cool. Good way to show your hypocricy Moose

Quote from Clokr_

Quote from isolatedpurity

Quote

Extract all the files.
Renamed them all to .wav.
Play each one. If the wav plays, it's a wav.
I've done it. It works. Of course it works.

You could even write a program to check each file for the first few bytes to get the magic number of each file... to see if it's a wav or not.

What amuses me is the loser that actually uses OSMAP for such a thing like stea... I mean extracting the sounds from protected maps.

I would "steal" sounds to add to my music that I create.. -_-

Quote from cheeze

I thought it was clear SEN was biased and if you don't like it, too bad? :{

I do think the word is spelled bias...

Quote from Falkoner

Oh, and IMO, it's much easier to extract sounds with OS Map rather than doing all the crap you people said you had to do to get them.

What is so hard about getting WinMPQ, and extracting two of the main Starcraft MPQs to get your sounds? Sounds like laziness to me.

Quote from DT_Battlekruser

Great allegory: hacks. Does the fact that Starcraft melee hacks are freely available and known by the average determined searcher mean we should "give in" and host hacks, too? I don't deny that killing to spread of OSMAP now is a practical impossibility. We do not, however, need to lend it any support because of it.

Quote

Id have no problem with OSMAP and unprotection not being supported here if by the same token no protectors were supported.

Protectors are not the opposite of OSMAP. OSMAP can forcibly stop others from protecting their maps by rendering their protection useless. Protectors can only protect a map of the author's own creation. If you support the author's rights and their decision, you support map protection.

It boils down here to two things:

If there was a program that forced everyone to use protection in the manner OSMAP stops them from using it, I would oppose that too.

Don't like protection? Just don't use it! No need to force your open-source views on others without their consent.

OSMAP != Open Source Mapping

So stfu about it already. OSMAP clearly CRACKS maps. How in the hell is that "Open Source"????!!!!!

Quote from Yoshi da Sniper

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

Yeah. We're having it again so I can gather everybodies feedback. Some peoples views have changed since SEN was down.

Like to start drama much?

Quote from Felagund

I'm only here to laugh at fools, and see what kind of new inovations Map Makers have came up with.

VIVA LA STARCRAFT II!

None.

Sep 20 2007, 4:51 pm

Moose Post #51

We live in a society.

Quote from Kellimus

Wow, I did the exact same kind of thing and got banned for it, cool. Good way to show your hypocricy Moose

I banned you.... how long ago? I can't even remember. Consider this my formal apology for having rules that evolve over time.

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

A salute to the captain.... Captain Obvious.

It is easier to fight the people than the mappers? Who's going to stop them from releasing the maps? Yeah, the major sites might not host them. I don't see anything stopping them from going widespread to battle.net. We can regulate such things on our own turf, but not universally.

As for protection in SC2... protection won't exist when I start mapping for it. With SC1, protection was already around and being used, so I expected it to remain.

https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/how-this-all-happened/
https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps.html
https://youtu.be/vyiXaCRwZTs
https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/09/how_to_be_mean_to_your_kids.html
http://lab.cccb.org/en/renata-avila-the-internet-of-creation-disappeared-now-we-have-the-internet-of-surveillance-and-control/

Sep 20 2007, 5:02 pm

mikelat Post #52

Quote

Like to start drama much?

I didn't make it drama. It only appears that was because some people take this issue way more seriously than they should and post with bold text and fight for the issue like they're going to die if OSmap is ever linked to on SEN. Personally, I'm for neither, so I couldn't care less about OSmap being posted or linked to. However, this isn't about me, this is about you guys.

None.

Sep 20 2007, 5:07 pm

Moose Post #53

We live in a society.

-never mind, Moose cannot read.

Sep 20 2007, 7:48 pm

Esponeo Post #54

Had it never been known as "Open Source Mapping Project" this discussion never would have occurred. If it were named for what it really is, a map cracking tool, there never would have been any question about the moral ramifications of such a program.

Which is of course what the creator wanted. A lot of confusion and a lot of angry discussion about something all because of the way it was named.

None.

Sep 20 2007, 9:08 pm LegacyWeapon Post #55

OSMAP wasn't named to confuse.

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Sep 20 2007, 9:11 pm Akar Post #56

WTF is wrong with the rules we already have?

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Sep 20 2007, 9:49 pm l3lack-l3ahamut Post #57

Nothing really, but I have to agree with Yoshi, it should be both or none if linking to OSMAP is not allowed than neither should linking to a protector. Both are easily accessible elsewhere, if you want them go get them yourself. I do not see the harm in discussing either though so long as they aren't linked to or hosted on SEN.

None.

Sep 20 2007, 9:58 pm

BeDazed Post #58

There isn't anything wrong with it. And I saw a bit of problem with OSMap too. Since people have a tendency to change a thing to their own forrm which they like, I've been seeing overly repeating maps like Cat and Mouse. It also has a tendency to have a limited amount of maps, and none of the old and good ones that were protected. In other words, OSMAP has a limit to it. In my position, if you people want open source map so much, make a dedicated open-source map by yourselves. Since it's purpose is to let people know how to use triggers and stuff like that. I'd want maps filtered when uploaded too. If thats all done, I am fine with OSMap, a reliable source of triggers, not a reliable source of ever repeating maps like Cat and Mouse.

Take a closer look. SEN isn't against OSMap. It doesn't support it anyhow either. But it respects a mapper's wish to keep maps protected.

None.

Sep 20 2007, 10:01 pm

Demented Shaman Post #59

Quote from Kellimus

I do think the word is spelled bias...

It is spelled correctly. There's also a spell check that automatically underlines misspelled words in this post box.

Best policy would be do whatever the fuck you want except steal maps.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 20 2007, 10:09 pm by devilesk.

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Sep 20 2007, 10:15 pm Akar Post #60

This gives me an idea....

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