No it's not like hacks. Not hosting OSMAP on a mapmaking site is like not hosting hacks at a website for hacking. OSMAP is a good tool for mapmaking and has many uses.

There is no way I'm going to read all that mess, these discussions have taken place several times already anyways. I don't see why anyone teally cares. It comes down to a few basic things:

1. People play maps to have fun, they don't care who made the map.
2. If your map is "stolen" and rigged, people will play your version anyways.
3. If aforementioned map's riggedness is not noticed by the players and there are missing your view of the game, keep spreading your map, and let people play whatever they want.
4. If you ultimately made the map, all that counts is that you know that you made it. Everyone else is pointless. Mapmaking is a creative endeavor, as with all creative partakings, it is about yourself before anyone else. The only other people you should even care about knowing who made your map are your close friends.
5. OSMap is not in the hands of true noobs. That ends the discussion right there. Use basic protection like uberation to prevent noob tampering (if that's what you want) and let the people trying to learn and check things out use the tool for its handiness.
6. It's not like I don't like people to know that I was part of making a map/made a map. It's not like I don't like it when people can acknowledge how much work I put into something. But, that is really irrelevant. Everything else I already said pretty much takes care of the "whys" on that one.

Ultimately, I am pro-choice. People can do whatever they want, and we'll still get along fine. Although, there is really no good arguement I've seen against OSmap and/or open source mapping. Depending on your type of map, basic protection or totally open source both work fine for your intentions.

I'm going to go back to DTBK's argument of how hacks are not allowed on SeN, so why not OS Map.

Hacks are completely different, hacks are patched by Blizzard, and not hosting links to them stops members here from getting the updates to these hacks, Blizzard finds nothing wrong with OS Map, while they are totally against hacks.

Yeah I know. What I don't know is what are we covering this time around that we weren't the last time. Or what we can possibly cover now, except to give others a chance to retrace our steps.

It's a master plan to sunk SEN again into the darkness by creating internal member wars o.O

Oh. Yeah ok that's cool then.

Awesome!

You see, that doesn't work because I'm the ultimate member and I supercede everyone else.

Beh, your member id is 136, not even over nine thousand

Although not a mapper, I believe the community should be open source, and not use protection/unprotection. The Modding Community is entirely open source, and wouldn't be as far as it is today if it had the closed source mentality.

The popular, good mods are open source? Who knew.

Not that protection for mods exists because they're MPQs....

Please. Stop trying to attack me personally.

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Again, it's like hacks. Whether SEN hosts maphack, mineral hack, etc. or not, I can still go online, download them, and hack. Therefore hacking is inevitable, so we might as well host hacks. Right? RIGHT?!? Same logic.

No it's not like hacks. Not hosting OSMAP on a mapmaking site is like not hosting hacks at a website for hacking. OSMAP is a good tool for mapmaking and has many uses.

I fail to see how OSMAP is the only program in mapping that exists.

Not hosting hacks on a hacking website is like not hosting editors on a mapping website.

Quote from Falkoner

I'm going to go back to DTBK's argument of how hacks are not allowed on SeN, so why not OS Map.

Hacks are completely different, hacks are patched by Blizzard, and not hosting links to them stops members here from getting the updates to these hacks, Blizzard finds nothing wrong with OS Map, while they are totally against hacks.

Blizzard is not God when it comes to morals. Blizzard not caring enough to take any stand on unprotection does not make it 'morally right'.

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I'm getting this strange deju vu vibe here. Didn't we already have this discussion over a year ago?

A salute to the captain.... Captain Obvious.

Yeah I know. What I don't know is what are we covering this time around that we weren't the last time. Or what we can possibly cover now, except to give others a chance to retrace our steps.

It's a master plan to sunk SEN again into the darkness by creating internal member wars o.O

Totally It's succeeding, too..

Quote from WoAHorde

Although not a mapper, I believe the community should be open source, and not use protection/unprotection. The Modding Community is entirely open source, and wouldn't be as far as it is today if it had the closed source mentality.

I happen to agree. But open-source mapping is not something that should be forced upon people who don't wish to use it. If some program could reverse-engineer any computer program you wrote, you would appreciate it? Some people wouldn't care. Others would be livid.


The final word is really this:

Pro-OSMAP people believe that a map maker has no right to protect their map and keep its designs from other people.

The fallacious argument that open-source mapping means OSMAP really irritates me.

I fail to see that too. Who made that claim? I sure didn't.

You guys are lame. OSMAP sucks. It's made in Visual Basic. SEN does not host things made in Visual Basic. End of discussion.

Sounds reasonable to me.

The fact mappers have this innate "right" as you call it to protect their maps is lost on me. There are some reasons why any right claimed is utterly useless.

1) Your map is worth absolutely nothing, no one will pay for it ever.
2) Your worried about someone stealing your "work". As someone else stated, that does not really matter seeing as they will most likely rig it and people will play your map anyways. Not to mention if they enhance it and people like it whats the problem with that they made the map better that is what OSMAP is about, making the maps more enjoyable for the bnet players
3) Finally considering the bnet community cannot be trusted with your maps you can protect them, but this by no means a reason to completely deny other mappers a resource for learning the art of map making. OSMAP should be able to be discussed and used by all mappers.

The people who steal your maps are not really map makers anyways they are cheats, frauds, call them what you will but in all reality the general populous will never know you created a map anyways unless you become another MilleniumArmy or Tuxedo_Templar (there are many more). In the same scenario the person stealing your map wont become famous either.

Like I said, the debate over whether mappers have a right to protect their own maps is an open moral question, and I have to respect differing opinions, even if I strongly disagree. Like you argued, you can make a case that people don't have the moral right to protection.

What I can't stand is people who don't recognize both sides of the moral question.

Mappers invest time in making maps, and players spend time to play them. The old saying goes: Time is money.

For shit's sake, did you even bother reading my first post? Here, letme go refresh your memory:
I don't know if I can make this anymore clear to you. We're *trying* to talk about how to handle discussion of unprotection vs protection programs. If you can't handle going into topic without arguing that OSmap is the spawn of the devil then please don't enter these topics. You are not helping your side at all by not answering my initial question and helping me find mutual solutions, which means a solution that you don't like could be decided upon since I'm basically ignoring your unrelated feedback on the issue.