Here, lemme make it simple for yall:

• OSMAP exists.
  
• Protection is shot in the ass.
  

Making rules and debates about it at this point is silly. It's just fighting over a principal of respect that no longer applies. Except perhaps as a gesture.

Unless someone makes a new type of protection program or something, or if you guys really thinks anyone is left who doesn't yet know about OSMAP or how to get it, then this is just turning into skub right now..



Personally, even as a well-meaning gesture, I don't think anyone is fooled anymore.

Either Tux understands me or shares the same opinion. =o

I've been trying to push for that for so long but no one cares about worthless me.

Well if someone exists who DOES fulfill those criteria (ignorant of OSMAP, that is), then in theory the debate might still apply (allowing it on SEN or not, I mean). But I really don't think there are many left who do, honestly. And for sure, everyone for whom this debate on morals that might still apply probably has it by now anyway.

And certainly these recurring debates themselves are most likely educating visitors on OSMAP enough to defeat most efforts to keep it away from them, anyway.

Hey dudes, you can protect your map, so nobody would steal it, and leave a unprotected version, you know, for learning. Like Tuxy did!

Yeah! Like I did!


And you aren't cool if you aren't like me!

It's kind of a Catch 22 though. The only reason to kill discussion at this point would be to prevent new members from learning about OSMAP, but writing a rule about not talking about OSMAP would pique their interest anyway, and people are naturally curious about things we're not allowed to do. Why should we limit discussion if participating posters do NOT:

• Endorse OSMAP as a means to steal maps
  

People are going to continue debating it until nobody makes SC1 maps anymore, so having it this way will just keep more people from getting in trouble.

Let's host OSMAP and then write this on it's description:

"OSMAP - Program to open protected maps in order to learn new map making tricks.

NOTE: If you use it to steal any existing maps WE'LL GO TO YOUR HOUSE, EAT YOUR CHILDREN, RAPE YOU AND THEN SCRATCH YOUR SC (AND MAYBE SCII TOO) CD."

Note: If my quotes break, I hate SeN again.


Damn English teacher taught me wrong



Blizzard is not God when it comes to morals. Blizzard not caring enough to take any stand on unprotection does not make it 'morally right'.


Totally It's succeeding, too..


I happen to agree. But open-source mapping is not something that should be forced upon people who don't wish to use it. If some program could reverse-engineer any computer program you wrote, you would appreciate it? Some people wouldn't care. Others would be livid.


The final word is really this:

Pro-OSMAP people believe that a map maker has no right to protect their map and keep its designs from other people.

The fallacious argument that open-source mapping means OSMAP really irritates me.[/quote]

Why not? You personally attack people who support OSMAP. Hypocricy? Anywho:

And exactly. OSMAP isn't the only program that exists like it, there are probibly hundreds more! You just don't hear about them.

Before OSMAP, there was a program made by Heimdal.

To my knowledge, he was the first person to make a program like that (I could still have it, too if I really wanted it)

To my knowledge, ANYONE with ANY programming knowledge, could make an OSMAP style of program.

So why are you continueing to bitch?

Oh, and OSMAP != Hack

If anyone thinks that, then they truely are stupid.




Blizzard is not God when it comes to morals?

Now we're getting God involved? Well, first off: BLIZZARD IS GOD WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR GAMES.

Therefore, every argument towards or against OSMAP fails because: Blizzard = God, and "God" hasn't bickered about unprotection.




With your logic that is.




Now to get on with that same subject: What makes ANYTHING morally right?

For you to stand back and slander OSMAP is UNMORAL!


Not to me of course. But I bet you that someone in the world would say that.

Because morals are creations of man. If you don't follow a certain "moral", you're deemed "taboo" becase MEN created the word: Moral


So you know what DTBK? Its unmoral for you to sit here and slander a computer program that was created by someone obviously smarter in programming than you will ever be. Its unmoral for you to sit on the internet and discuss crap over a forum. Its unmoral for you to play a game that could technically be considered Abandonware, and trying to claim that you know everything "good" there is to know about it.




See my point yet, or are you still "high and mighty" like you was last time I was here on SeN?




And guess what. I would be livid. But because its MY OWN PROGRAM that I took the time to make. I didn't use a MAP EDITOR, CREATED BY BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT to make MAPS for BLIZZARD GAMES

I took the time to make a Starcraft map. So?

Its still not mine, its Blizzards. I just made Blizzard a wicked ass map. They say I can use because I made it, but read below:


Essentially (Even states it in the EULA), its still Blizzards.





THAT should be where the discussion ends.

Not about "someone stole my map on a game thats ten+ years old! That's unmoral!"



If you guys really want to bitch about stolen SC maps, you might as well bitch about how Nintendo Entertainment Systems (NES) games have been stolen and put onto ROMs (Betcha $5000 that you whiney bitches that don't support OSMAP, support Emulators and ROMs, which is exactly what OSMAP does..) on the computers.. Cause its the same damn scenario: "if its moral or not"

Well, fuck morals in a computer game virtual environment over the internet. Especially one that's ten+ years old.



Blizzard probibly would laugh their ass off at people like DTBK.


For christ sakes you babies, its just a game. Go be a script kiddy somewhere else if you're going to whine about how someone stole scripts from you (which is all you are doing when making Starcraft maps: Scripting in StarEdit language), that you could logically say you stole from Blizzard, since YOU ARE trying to say its YOUR map.


Made in VB? Bet you $50 that he used VB for the Look and mainly used C++ for everything else....


What I can't stand, are people who try to bring in morals from real life, into a virtual environment.

Have you ever seen any Blizzard game that says: "This game is moral"

No. More then likely (now days since those damn people that make up the E-M ratings make them do it) it says: "M for mature. Battle.net experience may change online" or some wicked ass disclaimer like that (I've seen it on most the internet games now)

So you know what? Fuck morals and trying to tie them in with Starcraft. I'm not going to be nice to some reject I don't even know, what is the fun in that? And what is the point of me having morals online on Battle.net, when half, to most the other people don't?


Seriously, this is an issue about whiney little bitches like you who cry because someone steals their Starcraft map.

Boo-hoo. You spent all your time, energy, and effort into that map to make it badass, and some retard stole it from you.

Boo-hoo. Where in the fuck are you going to get in life, making Starcraft maps your whole life?



No-where.




So instead of bickering about how "its unmoral", just stfu already, for real. Last time I was here on SeN, everyone was bitching and whining about OSMAP.... ITS BEEN A FUCKING YEAR FOR CHRIST SAKES, STFU WITH YOUR WHINING!

Instead of making Starcraft maps, do something REALLY PRODUCTIVE like Programming, Photoshop, school, modding SC, or something....

[/endrant]


Time is money in THE REAL WORLD. Not the virtual world of a game that's ten+ years older... -_-

I'd really like to see someone get paid for their map and have Blizzard find out...


Awwwww :'(

Multi-quoting is teh sux.

Uh, stop using it then?

He isn't. Lolz.

Uh, stop being a lying hypocrite?


Wow Kenoli, when did you learn to read my mind!

SCHWEET! I WANT THAT ABILITY!

Really, stfu. I've been using multi-quotes, its just v5 is still under development and there are bugs. That's the only reason they break

Hypocrite? For telling you to stop using a unfinished feature? Either we're not talking about the same thing or you don't actually know what a hypocrite is.

Hmm... the ability to read your own mind. I can see how that would be useful for you.

A hypocrite for telling everyone (what time was it this time Yoshi? The Fifth time?) that "you're completely done with SeN, and will have nothing to do with it because you've moved onto better things like Forum creation"

I really don't understand why I'm bringing this up, It doesn't matter. You ignore your own fallacies because you seem to can't face truth ever, and then try to claim that everyone else are at fault.

Good day in showing me your true colors Yoshi

As long as someone else is doing majority of the coding at SEN, I can do both at once. I have the freedom to choose where I want to spend my time, and if its helping out SEN then I guess its my choice, not yours to judge. I don't see anyone else busting a nut because I'm here, I don't see why you should take it so personally.

I don't know what "the truth", "my fallacies", or "my true colours". All I know is that I'm doing what I like doing and that theres a the ability to close your browser window if you don't like the site your visiting.

Oh, I love the site I'm viewing.

I just have a problem with hypocrites and liars.


Majority of the coding? Isn't that why you "just threw Mini_Moose in as admin when you know he isn't a good one", so you didn't HAVE to deal with SeN anymore?

Yes, I paraphrased that from our old ass MSN Logs (which have now been lost) when I first asked you why you were leaving SeN (that time)

Oh wait, I forgot. You'll just come up with another excuse/lie to make everyone here think you're this great person that 'loves SeN', and doesn't lie.

Whateva. Its pointless to try to discuss anything with you because you're like a brick wall.


"You're always right, everyone else is wrong"

I don't remember anything I said to you 2 or 3 years ago. I could of said that about moose, or maybe I didn't. The problem is that I don't keep logs pretty much after oh, 6 months.

What I said about people and things way back when is irrelevant at this time. I'm sure you said plenty of wonderful dirty things too but unfortunately I don't have the MSN logs or memory to prove anything

If you want to keep talking, lets do it over IM so nobody has to see these squabbles. At the very least you'll be making plenty of new logs to post up to replace the old ones you lost

Lol. Still trying to make you seem like the better man, eh Yoshi?

I don't need logs to prove my point anyways. There are other members here that remember what went on, and they're the only ones that count anyways

I'm surprised they haven't come on and started grilling me for it... or wait, its because its silly to dwell on the past. I'm not better than anybody, I make mistakes like anybody else, I'm just held to a different standard by a lot of people.