Not trying to be a douche but picking fights with Veterans is usually not a good idea... though I'm not saying you can't make a point, you should at least try to take a formal approach rather than letting your temper get the better of you, my friend.

Now then:

First of all, you need to stop looking at things from a skin-deep level, and try and look at possible alterier motives. I'm just going to leave it at that. Remember, we aren't legally allowed to share the betakey, so it is physically impossible for us to do it by any means.

You made an analogy between the lottery and a SEN Contest, where a lottery HAS legal obligation, and a SEN contest does not. You seem to miss the point that Vrael was making: that a lottery and a SEN contest are on TWO different levels entirely.

Edit1: Also, SEN is a tight-knit community, I doubt shocko would simply backstab all of us like that without legitimate reason.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 22 2010, 12:27 am by TiKels. Reason: See edit1:

Simply put SEN just lost face. I'm on leeroys side, being told such a vague reason for me wasting 8+ hours is enraging.

Why is SEN hosting an illegal contest?


Maybe you're right, but I don't like being told to "buzz off", mi amigo.

I am also dissapointed that Shocko rescinded his offer. On the other hand, why make a map and come to SEN if you don't enjoy mapmaking?

We aren't. It's not illegal, since we're not giving out a key.

Haha, well originally there was going to be a key, so my question is, why would SEN host an illegal contest?

I think Jenkins has the winning argument here, and to be fair I don't think you have the right telling him to not be angry, he's got every right to be. I've seen a lot worse rants coming from angry people as well, Jenkins is mild at best.
What are you suggesting, he'll get banned for giving his POV?
We could speculate alterior motives until the cows come home, but all we'll come up with is guesswork. None of us know whats going on with Shocko except Shocko. Which brings me to my next point.

Here's what I see at skin-deep level:
1. A guy promises a beta-key to a bunch of people for a map making contest. A bunch of people sign up, working hard on their maps in order to try and win the prize. Half way through, he takes the prize away.
2. He lies about it. Not only does he take the key away, but he doesn't even explain himself or try to justify his actions, he just vaguely states mental sickness in a sly attempt that sympathy for his condition would outweigh everyones anger at him for taking the key away. Surprisingly enough, it actually worked too.

Legal/illegal doesn't even need to come into this argument its got nothing to do with the core debate here. Anyway that's me done, I await your rebuttal Shocko sympathizers.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 22 2010, 7:21 pm by Merrell. Reason: Removing flame

Some fights are not worth to be fought. All this is doing is put tension on Sen.

SEN wasn't hosting an illegal contest, shocko was. As soon as it was brought to the attention of SEN (and a few days after that) shocko rescinded his original offer, and if he hadn't SEN would have.

I think that we all can carry formal debates everywhere without getting angry. I think that some SD rules don't only make sense in SD; they can apply to anywhere.


This was the entire quote, you can't just take things out of context and expect it to make entire sense. I was saying it for HIS BENEFIT. SEN has a short temper. So yes, if giving his POV involves (arguably) unnecessary harsh words, then I AM suggesting he will be banned/given severity/suspended (if not immediately).


1. This is a fact and is undebatable.
2. Assuming he is lying, what reason could he have for lying? He could only be doing a few things: he could just not want to relinquish his key (but that would defeat the purpose of making the contest in the first place), he could be simply lying because he can't/doesn't want to explain what is wrong because it is severe enough, or lastly trying to get people stirred up and producing maps. All of these are completely legitimate reasons (except the first which is a contradictory piece).

Very condescending and pointless. I give you the same advice I gave to Jenkins. If you aren't careful you are gonna get a sword shoved up your ass. I am not threatening you, I am simply helping you adjust to SC's strict "quality requirements" for posts.

I am unwilling to divulge what he is experiencing without his permission, but I will vouch for its legitimacy.

There is no obligation, and never was any obligation, to provide a beta key as the prize for this contest. Therefore there is no reason to be mad about not recieving one. I do agree that it is unfortunate, but you cannot hold someone accountable for a gift they meant to give of their own free will with no compensation.

Neither Shocko or myself had any idea that it was illegal at the time. Also, it's not illegal, which would imply a contradiction with the law. It's simply prohibited by Blizzard Entertainment in their terms of use.

I think he meant illegal in that sense. The same way how certain names on Bnet contain "Illegal Characters." This does not denote them being contrary to the law (what a funny idea!) but rather them being contrary to something.

I don't see why some people are upset by the fact that they spent time making a map. Isn't that what we do? Sure, you put effort into it. Wouldn't you do that with any of your maps? Are you really so selfish as to only have made the map to get a beta key? Are you telling me you guys don't make maps in the hope that the people of battle.net will enjoy them and play them? The beta key is moot. You can't have it. Get over it. Let's move on with the final phase of the contest: Assigning a winner. Winner gets to say they won a contest on SEN with their quality map that they dedicated their time to. If it is truly good enough to be a winner, then you have accomplished something. Be proud of that. Don't whine and toss insults because you were a good boy and ate all your vegetables, but there was no cookie to be had afterward. Sometimes you have to take what you can get. You are nourished. You all (the contest participants) ate you vegetables (made your maps) and are now better off because you have nourished yourself (by putting your map-making skills to use) and didn't consume unnecessary crap (You don't have a beta key, you can't play sc2 beta. Keep playing SCBW and enjoy it until SC2 is ready for mass consumption).

tl;dr? You're all winners in my book.

Beta keys exist to be given away.

I'm not sure "current mental sickness" falls into the legitimate-reasons-for-withdrawing-contest-prizes category. Or any category for that matter. What does that even mean?




PS
They're upset because they were deceived.

Forgive my bug-riddled postings of pre-beta RPG. I got ahead of myself trying to get into final version on time for entry. Updated.

I'm done complaining, because it isn't helping anything. Like I said, I just had to express my opinion and let off a little steam. And for the record TiKels- any sane site wouldn't deem what I said ban-worthy. Yes, even with the "unnecessarily harsh words" I have yet to spot out.

So you were suggesting that then, ok that's what I thought.

[insert blatantly obvious rebuttal]

Get a dictionary.

If anything your the one that needs to check your quality, so far all your arguments seem to be fueled by passion, not reason.


Hmm, I can't fathom why so many are defending this guy.

Promising someone something and then not giving it to them, irregardless of the conditions is an action to be frowned upon.
Lying about the reasons behind it is even worse.

lol @tikel constantly waving the ban stick, like some mother with a wooden spoon. We're allowed express our opinions dude, get over it. It's not like we're insulting peoples mothers or anything, all arguments that have been put forth haven't been said with intent to start a flame war, sure there's a bit of rhetoric and sophistry - but certainly not anything to start banning people for. So you're just making yourself look silly constantly subtly threatening with bans.

When entering debates, one must realise that our end goal is to establish the truth. Not to blindly defend your side of the argument until one side grows weary of the other. Step back, analyse the debate at hand, and think "what if I'm wrong?"

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Mar 22 2010, 11:19 am by Pinky.

That was the very first thing I thought when I read Shocko's post. He could post, so why couldn't he give the key to Vrael?
Shocko, you fail.

The facts that someone decided to spend "4", "7", or "8+" (in the latter I'm assuming there's not much of a plus) hours means that not only are you guys half-assing, but you're bitching because your half-assing won't get you jack shit. Leeroy, stop crying. You're the "7" above, and I'm willing to bet you've spend at least half of that on here ranting and picking fights. In fact, you rushed so hard that the next post pointed out flaws in your map, and it took you almost a full 18 hours to post a working version.

Stop complaining because it won't change anything, and you probably weren't going to win it anyways. Simply put, the more time you spend on a map, generally the better it turns out. I'm willing to bet that your map is a spamfest, 64x64 mass map.

Sure, I think that his reasons/methods are crappy. Sure, it's different because I committed after he announced the fail. Sure, HE NEVER HAD TO OFFER IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The reason you guys will not be seeing my map in here is because I don't have the time to put into the map that I would enter. Sure, I lost motivation because of this, but I'm still going to complete my map. Probably will take longer than a week or two to complete, as well. Grow up and learn to deal with setbacks.

TL;DR: Read it. It's the closest I've ever gotten to an outright flamefest.

So we can all just start hosting some contests and then drop out of them? To answer my own question from what I've read, Yes. No punishment seems to come and we all move on so I guess it's OK.

You can never prove that the person wasn't lying about their reason for not giving the thing away, thus proving that we could hold the contests and then quit them without getting punished. ( That's also how a court case works. No evidence, no punishment. And that's how you guys are looking at this. )


When you say this, does that mean if I did something like this ( since I'm new ) that I would get banned? Since 'Veterans' have more respect than me.

P.S. Make sure you quote the whole paragraph not just a sentence—if you quote anything at all...
P.S.S I won't post again on this thread because I don't want a big argument, I just want to state a point out that should be considered for the future, since many people are upset ( including me )

Honestly, it does seem that Shocko's reasoning is a bit lacking. For anyone whining because a key won't be handed out- noone said you were going to automatically be a winner for submitting a map. For those angry because they 'wasted a few hours their life making a map'- Go find a better hobby, or change your attitude. I'm sorry that your map making was so torturous, but what would you have done if you didn't win? (which is very plausible).

I spent over 36 hours on only two abilities for my map, and I still don't consider it 'wasted time'- that's a terrible way to think. Now without the key, I'm just planning to work on TS first, then finish my 'fire' map later.

It doesn't matter if you got shafted from a prize, or even first place, in a mapping contest; the greatest satisfaction should come from making an awesome map.

15 minutes remaining in the contest.