and fix my "x" on the map :[

Instead of making it night, what if you just make a spell that turns off shared vision for the earth deamon's enemies. that way they can't see it burrowed during day, and the ob can fly safe (unless there is a detector)

OMG IT'S MNEOX! o.O

@ JrOSTAD ..
I will not take out the day and night cycle..

However, your idea of turning off shared vision = one of ED's spells was already in my agenda of things to change ...
It'll probably replace the current SandTrap.

Um. It's not protected...now any noob can just go in and rig it and then say to himself 'omg im so pro i hacked this map lolololol'
...Better update it with a protected v.

I started to not protect my map in order to increase its popularity.. but you're right, I should protect the betas...

Anyway, I have a proposal to make.
I have been playing Temple Siege... and altho I should play more before I make drastic changes again...
I realized that it was actually Frustrating playing as some of the chars due to me trying to balance them out...

That is bad... really bad... I can see why people didn't really like the v1.5 changes ..
I've been trying to go forward and push the game to have more gameplay... but right now, with SC, I don't think I can do an awful lot better.
I realized that Summoner and Light mage have went from the top to the bottom of the charts. It is too sudden of a change, I guess, and light mage can't do much against the new spawn system.

So this is what I have in mind.. I'm going to change the Spawn Leader down 1 level, but 2x. So instead of spawning 1 Marine and 6 broods.. It'll spawn 2 zlings and 6 broods... When you upgrae spawn number once, you get 3+spawn and 1+spawn leader. I'll also maybe decrease the killscore per experience thing back to the original.

I will also change Assault's L1 to be less of a micro-intensive spell, and decrease the buff that I gave to melee heroes: Warrior, Engineer, Summoner, and maybe Dark Mage.
This will hopefully even out the playing field between melee/ranged heroes.

The important thing to ask is.. What'd you guys think. Should I keep the current spawn leader system, or make a Compromise.. Or even scrap it entirely(which is definately what I don't want to do)

The spawning system is actually workable with summoner, it just takes heaps more micro. But the 2 lings would make it a lot easier, especially with that dual summon.

I like the new spawn leaders in large part because the ranged enemies add a really large gameplay dynamic which Zerglings wouldn't.
Personally, the classes I don't like to play are the Volt, because he's so big and slow - but then, lots of other people like him; the Summoner, because I lack the attention span to handle six groups of Zerglings and prevent them all from running into Cannons/especially avoiding feeding the enemy team early on - yet I've never seen my friend lose with it; Dark Mage, because she's slow, but I also usually win as her anyways; Assassin - but as you mentioned, he's still extremely capable in the right hands, and I don't too much mind him in 3v3; and Assault, but I have no idea why I do so poorly with him. Everyone else loves the bastard.

I think the 2 ling system will make it a lot better. I think the problem was you balanced it for the old spawn system, the broods, but not for the 1.5 spawn system.

Oh ya, one thing I've been meaning to point out/ask about:
Why do the l4 ( Zealots ) do the exact same damage as l3 ( Marines ) ?
If anything, that enemy wave is easier than the last, since suddenly our ranged enemy is slower, less maneuverable, and the enemies themselves are insignificantly tougher ( 40 hitpoints ) , but lose their range, and by the time we reach them, we should almost certainly have 18 armor if we need it ( considering individual kills are giving resources at that point ) .

Shredder: Yes oh god yes have i had problems loging in lol.


as for new spawn change i really like the spawn leader. Not thrilled about screwing with spawn system. Most of the changes were made to help characters in this new spawn system. And at the moment it seems to be running decently even with the few problems (light mage, melee attackers).


Personally i like the fact that the stupid light mage now has to put some points into hp because of this new system. Before i could pump mana alone. Now i need 1-3 points into hp most of the time. He also still work once he gets his exp. It has only made him a slower hero like the summoner who end up being powerhouses late game. Speaking of him its rather nice that the summoner is actually forced to pay attention now. It starts off even kill the lings while copmpletely avoiding rines or kill rines first and suffer some dmg.


This brings me to range vs melee debate. I feel the range attack is much better than close up melee even with the extra spawn. The range with the dmg it has will be greater than the lings because its less avoidable and the summoner would go back to how it was. The summoner can very easily get 9 armor and be effective again and regardless even with low armor he can survive easier than rine dmg.
Lastly i'd like to compare wave 2 with wave 1. wave 1 has broodlings (feed) rine boss (dmg) while wave 2 has zerglings(dmg {9armor=feed}) zealot boss(feed). The damage is just not increased enough and may be due to the fact its a zealot and his dmg can be easily negated but i feel even at that the rine attacks faster and the range gives him the advantage over 2 lings when trying to dmg a hero.


Like i said a while back i felt you did too much to fast in terms of spawn because it was trashing certain chars. I also said it was prolly the best you could do with units you had available though. Idealy one would be best off remodeling the spawn for the certain waves and boss would be one wave above. I don't think this will fit due to the inflexibility of the units you have.

Bug. The Light Mage's L1 doesn't go invince anymore in 1.5d >< Hes attackable right after the first half second during the move =\ And its not on the change list either.. Fix plz ><

It was fixed ... download most updated version plz. .. I'm pretty sure I fixed it.

Yep its fixed now XD Probly just an old version

Great game. ^.^ Here's some things you might want to look into.

Ok, firstly some bugs:
The first thing is that when DT uses 2nd spell (stun) on lurker's 3rd (hydras), instead of being like what happens vs ling's 2nd spell (lings), which gives those spawned lings into P12 that are not invincible, using it on the lurker changes some hydras into P12 invincible units and other hydras just become companions for the lurker player. Pretty annoying.
Another thing is if ling dies when he uses 3rd spell (lurks) he gets like 18 (?) lurkers to use. Ew... Thats tough to beat. At full hp too!
There is a way to get invincible SV's and dropships.
There is a way to get infinite cloaked medic. (Last two I'm not so sure about how it works.)

Now onto gameplay:
Spawn leaders are awesome. I don't see any problem with them O.o. Pretty much every unit (I don't know about LM, cause I don't like to use him, but I've seen people who do fine with LM.) can fight them with not much problem. Sure some units (assassin, ling (early), dark mage) may have to heal a little more often but bonus exp is pretty fine. Ranged units do not have an advantage (because of spawn leaders, I'm not sure about the whole game) IMO. If you want to change the spawn leader thing its fine. I don't know which way would be better but I think its fine now.
Summoner is fine, slightly harder to use but is more fun. You can't just hold position your lings and run the moment you see the enemy. (Cept at lvl 2 spawn.)
What's wrong with making assault micro intensive? Micro is fun , but I guess if majority of people don't like micro, then I guess I can't say much about it. Some people are just against micro (probably cause they can't do it? I'm not sure.).

What to change:
Please change stats of refinary. I don't know what exactly, but most units either can't touch it for a long time or take forever. What is the actual armor, 60-70? Anyways, let's see the units that can't do much to refinaries:
Zergling
Marine (For most of the game unless he's CRAZY damage. But on the other hand if he's facing against the firebat then he's probably not gonna have super sims.)
Zealot (Double attack makes armor double.)
Medic (Low damage concussive)
Phantom (Concussive)
Summoner (Until final, but by then the difference in damage from sims should be apparent.)
Dark Mage (Yes, if you have 12 upgrades you can hit like 5 (?) damage to it? You'll need at least 17 upgrades (25 damage per attack) to kill it in 40 hits O.o. 17 ups is a lot though.)
Lurker (Pretty much same reasaon as dark mage, needs tons of ups.)
Mech for first half of game.
Of course maybe it's just because I play most of the units that can't kill refinaries, but anyways, it's kinda too strong. Lower armor and/or increase cost? Maybe add mana cost too? I don't know, but I don't think it's fair currently.
Firebat also needs his HP cut down.
For warrior 6000 HP 100 Shields < 5800 HP 150 shields. For a first spell it guards 15 damage for 10 seconds. Thats pretty good, thus more people will use it (like me) and decide that they SHOULD use it. Also, maybe slightly shrink/lower time of warrior's 3rd spell. Yes I know few people use it too, but it's actually really strong. (I use it )

There's probably more but I can't think of anything else right now. Great game so far; much better than 1.4mt (which I don't ever understand why everyone plays...). Sorry about spam of much's. Maybe I'll think of more later.

P.S. Try to actually read all of it.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 1 2009, 12:46 am by Mini Moose 2707. Reason: Much less "much"s. (removed spam)

The armored refinery is now 50 armor. It is supposed to be a lil stronger .. But considering that you need Engineer.. L3 .. and Minerals + Time to build ( it takes a long time to build ) ... it isn't too terrible.

Btw.. thnx for the comment <3..

I guess i'll be keeping the spawn system as it is.

PLEEEEEASE change the spawn system! So far it's thrown everything out of wack, and definitely needs improvements. Also, I know you don't want to change sin, but here's my problem. Assassin is supposed to be stronger at night with cloak, but if you're not fighting ne1 then it's just a burden. The spawn can't see him so he can't farm as well, resulting in sin having a low exp usually. Could you make it so spawns can still see him at night? It would help the sin and make him lose that huge disadvantage.

And @good day to die, medic infinite cloak is the result of medic cloak and massive l4 because it restores energy as well as hp.

assasin at night isnt TOO bad -.- i can still be near the top of the xp at a choke-point if u know how 2 use him right, altho ppl arent exactly feeding at that point, while i still am XD so... try different spots like eastern spot or northern spot (not much room 2 get through but there is still some) this way spawn will get by and u can still hit some...

Nuju, stop trying to lecture me on how to play. I know how to Exp as assassin if it comes to that, I'm just saying it is more difficult for him and is thus imbalanced, which is what this forum is about...

ok so he can't exp at every spot on the map at the same speed as a normal player this does not make him imbalanced. He can still feed quite well and he doesn't take the dmg, which also means he won't need as much hp or have to heal as much with how slow he runs because him moving 24/7 sucks (speed wise i find light mage and the assassain the slowest 2 whether or not they are :\). Great trade off imo since his l2 and l4 greatly rely on his damage to kill opponents.

If your having trouble i would either spend some of your mana since your not feeding and cast l2 which stuns the lil dudes or go and fight next to your own spawn that way it wont really matter. No need to screw up things that don't need to "fixing".


As for your earlier comment about spawn provide examples on how it screws everything up. An argument with no evidence is one weak argument.