Temple Siege M8e
"Hell, it's about time!"

DOWNLOAD: http://www.staredit.net/files/808/
CHANGE LIST: http://www.staredit.net/ts-changes/

Originally by: UnholyUrine
M versions by: Mini Moose 2707
Using Terrain by: MNeox, xYoshix
This is the official version for Temple Siege Tournament #5.


-- NOTES --
The current version, M8e, is the real tournament release (whenever the tourney will end up being ) and fixes the bugs and some imbalances of M8d:
- Fixed LM L2 Devourers for real.
- Fixed bug caused by a player with two spawn pathing civilians leaving the game that could cause a team to end up with 2 civilians, meaning broken spawn.
- Improved triggers for Warp Gate regeneration. I've only seen one unplacable so far, but the ones I made were pretty lame.
- Increased Assault's HP from 4800 to 5000.
- Increased upgrade damage on Assault's L4 firebats to +4.
- Decreased upgrade damage on Special Ops' L3 from +15 to +12.
- Put in progress messages of 25%, 50%, and 75% for outpost captures.
- Fixed many location problems with the new capblock locations. (They weren't used for anti-minecapping and such.)
- Put in Yoshi's updates to his terrain.


M8d was is the tournament release for Temple Siege Tournament #5. The following changes were made from M8b to M8d:
- Fixes for many bugs found in M8b. (details)
- South team now deploys heroes on the upper-left (closer to all outposts) of the Temple when starting the game/after death.
- Implemented semi-randomized Civilian placement in hero selection. Not true random due to there being 6! = 720 possible placements, but "random enough" for what it needs to do.
- Added a message to tell players when they block an outpost capture.
- Standardized locations for capture blocking to a 7x6 location. (2 tiles all directions from the beacon)
- Assault L2 and L3 no longer blows up your own and your team's Probes and summons.
- Assault L2 Grenade now kills Probes.
- Assault L1 now stops mana regeneration of affected players.
- Player-owned scourge off the arena are ordered back towards the arena. (affects Assault and Special Ops)



-- ABOUT THE M VERSIONS --
The Temple Siege M versions were originally based off modifications to UnholyUrine's 1.4. It was more balanced and introduced many core gameplay changes. For example, XP bonuses and reduced spawn amounts at outposts meant that capturing them was far more often a good idea! Many of these changes remain in UnholyUrine's 1.5, as 1.5 itself was based off an M version.

The title remained a simple 1.4M for many versions and through many updates. As updates continued and the amount of versions increased, so did confusion over exactly which versions were being played. To address this, future versions of the map would be appended with an incrementing number at the end.

After 1.4M7, the map began to take new directions. Core gameplay elements were changed even further. Major terrain changes were introduced and gradual XP bonuses were granted for destroyed Warp Gates. The map that would have been known as 1.4M8 was diverging more and more from 1.4. The 1.4 prefix was dropped and only the suffix remainined -- thus creating Temple Siege M8.



-- THREAD --
I am not interested in the following kinds of posts. Let it be clear what "not interested" means -- the posts will be moderated viciously with extreme prejudice. You are a victim not of moderation but rather your own expectations if you are expecting otherwise.
1. Trash talk, arrogance, and in general how much better you are than anyone. This is not battle.net, this is SEN, and that shit does not fly here.
2. Balance changes and discussion for other versions. (unless relevant) The Temple Siege 1.4 thread and Temple Siege 1.5 thread can handle such posts and they are off-topic here.
3. Character backstories and/or storyline. Temple Siege is a PvP map at its core and therefore I have no intentions of incorporating such material.
4. Whining about how anything become ruined or imbalanced or otherwise adversely affected that provides no reasoning. We will dial whine-one-one for a waaaambulance.



-- KNOWN ISSUES* --
- There is a way to get free Mech speed. Don't really need to tell everyone because they could just exploit it.
- There are some problems with the actual capturing of bases using the old (huge) capblock locations. (not capblocking or starting capture, but getting to 100% and not capping because the other team has something there.)
(*note: issues and bugs, not ideas, additions, or suggestions.)
Green means it's fixed for the next version.




-- FUTURE PLANS --
- Redo outpost capture system. (or should I say craptrue system lul)
- Add Physicist. (Dragoon Hero)
- Randomize Civilian placement at start.
- Add in spawn levels of Dragoons and Goliaths?
- Add in more types of buildings?



-- LINKS --
http://www.staredit.net/ts-changes/
Temple Siege v1 -- old thread for TS 1.4 and 1.4Mx versions
Temple Siege v1.5
Temple Siege Strategy -- semi-active, not maintained by TC
Temple Siege Guide -- all versions, not being updated?

the v1 thread can really only be used for 3.x discussion (although don't expect there to be anymore).

I really like being a summoner with archer in this, and while I've won all my matches with it, I think it can still be beaten. If anyone thinks they have an unbeatable archer build I'd like to play them, just let me know in a post here.

I havent tested the map out yet (well its only been out for a couple mins now XD)

Wondering on balance for:

Mutant: l3 Charge up (removes night strike abilities w/burrow).

Special Ops: Half mine invincibility (idk...); Anti-minecapping restrictions, does this effect only on startup, or will they run if no enemy heroes are within capping area at any given time? Sniper Rfile: Im not sure, but if his l4 is mine drone, how does he get a sniper rifle...I feel like im missing something basic here.

@CAFG: Hadnt thought of that, but with DM archer is even worse..Imagine Mael-Snare-L2...And then archer Comes up with his six units, surrounds and kills...Casting l1/l3 for extra damage.

Archer: Ally=l2, wondering on balancing for possible army so early... L3 im assuming spawns one after the other centered on archer (or a burrowed unit underneath) wondering on balancing for such a high range move w/ so much damage, but since its l3...

I feel that most (or all) of my problems with balancing are unnessary worries, but i would rather put them up then let them be. May change my mind on playing, however.

Feeling great about the game though, cant wait to try out, nice job moose!

@CAFG: Hadnt thought of that, but with DM archer is even worse..Imagine Mael-Snare-L2...And then archer Comes up with his six units, surrounds and kills...Casting l1/l3 for extra damage.

the fact that dm can mael almost any1, and then mutant can run up for a lv2, and the game is still balanced - says a lot to these sort of "imba" matchups

Quote from ClansAreForGays

the fact that dm can mael almost any1, and then mutant can run up for a lv2, and the game is still balanced - says a lot to these sort of "imba" matchups

The only difference with this strat is that mutant can be harassed. Archer has so many allies... I thought of that matchup while writing it but the archer thing has slightly more surviveability due to Allies having range, auto attack distracting, and L1 being able to deal out even more damage. Mutant is useless at a distance once he casts l2, archer has range and can deal with it.

Its probably not that much of a problem, but you never know.

Sweet moose, i've been wondering when you'd jjst change it to something like vMoose or something

Quote

4. Whining about how anything become ruined or imbalanced or otherwise adversely affected that provides no reasoning. We will dial whine-one-one for a waaaambulance.

And this made me lol

Looking forward to testing this soon. IT might actually get me back into the TS game again.

Quote from MEMEME670

Mutant: l3 Charge up (removes night strike abilities w/burrow).

Not really. The charge-up takes 12 trigger cycles, which is about 1 second realtime. Reaction time is still necessary. The ability will be diminished, but far from removed.

Quote from MEMEME670

Anti-minecapping restrictions, does this effect only on startup, or will they run if no enemy heroes are within capping area at any given time?

If enemy heroes are not in range, the triggers run. It does not matter when you cast your mines.

Quote from MEMEME670

Sniper Rfile: Im not sure, but if his l4 is mine drone, how does he get a sniper rifle...I feel like im missing something basic here.

Sniper Rifle is L3?

Quote from MEMEME670

@CAFG: Hadnt thought of that, but with DM archer is even worse..Imagine Mael-Snare-L2...And then archer Comes up with his six units, surrounds and kills...Casting l1/l3 for extra damage.

@CAFG: Hadnt thought of that, but with DM archer is even worse..Imagine Mael-Snare-L2...And then archer Comes up with his six units, surrounds and kills...Casting l1/l3 for extra damage.

Quote from MEMEME670

The only difference with this strat is that mutant can be harassed. Archer has so many allies... I thought of that matchup while writing it but the archer thing has slightly more surviveability due to Allies having range, auto attack distracting, and L1 being able to deal out even more damage. Mutant is useless at a distance once he casts l2, archer has range and can deal with it.

If survivability when attacking someone trapped in a Maelstrom is the issue, then Summoner has both the Mutant and Archer outdone.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

If survivability when attacking someone trapped in a Maelstrom is the issue, then Summoner has both the Mutant and Archer outdone.

I felt archer had it good because he could defend himself in ways of L1 and allies even if he was focused on attacking a mael'd unit.

Neither Summoner nor Mutant can switch targets effectively.

now that i've had a chance to review terrain and layout entirely.

Problems
Top gyser guarded by cannons can be hit by mechs siege tanks, without taking dmg, and bottom base can't. In general bottom's gyser is more protected as 2 cannons will hit you no matter what unit you are if you attack it vs top one will hit you no matter your unit.

bottom gysers seem more defensible than top gysers and also seem more clumped which can make defending easier.

some of gysers still cannot be built next to.

middle looks very much improved except now you can siege the bottom gyser from the hill with mutas or siege tanks.

Redirecting the tops top spawn to the bottom looks like it will still send the spawn to wherever the middle is directed via its location.

location at top still isn't set well with the ramps. Overall the interuption area is much smaller than the other two capture points.

Not big deals
bottom top ramp was not widened to prevent a fat unit from spawn blocking. (may be a bigger problem but i haven't got a chance to look see if the spawn redirects from getting stuck.

top no cannons at beacon ???

bottom has much more space to get from one spawn collision point to the next.

Questions
Will all cannons have the shield recharge or only those preplaced? (not sure exactly how this works)

Will the selection civs placement ever be randomized in future m versions?

Will the un buildable ground be reduced to make nexus more feasible to place arround map?


*** Will be looking at areas during game play and balance issues when i get to play it. ***

I'm interested to see how this turns out. If there's an overpowered hero right now, my only thought is that it's the Archer or Summoner. If playing Archer as a summoner gets overpowered, just make burrow cost, and that's essentially fixed because then he won't grind well at all.

You did implement the Mech change, which will definitely be something to adjust to. I might actually have to get the Tank for more than 2-t-t.

Looking forward to a lot of discussion and a chance for some new strategies, my only complaints right now are mostly cosmetic.

I found a bug with mutant's night vision. Its on always. it never gets dark for mutant and his l1 is useless. This is on the most recently posted version (prior to this post).
Also found a bug with Sci-Ops (marine) where his l4 is the old mine dropping from the scourge rather than a nuke.

Once you fix all the bugs make it M8.1 or something so we can distinguish between working and bugged versions.

Quote from wish4me

Once you fix all the bugs make it M8.1 or something so we can distinguish between working and bugged versions.

No, don't add it. At least don't add as a filename suffix.

giving it a filename suffix would help us to distinguish when people were hosting the current v as opposed to an older version.

Quote

I found a bug with mutant's night vision. Its on always. it never gets dark for mutant and his l1 is useless. This is on the most recently posted version (prior to this post).
Also found a bug with Sci-Ops (marine) where his l4 is the old mine dropping from the scourge rather than a nuke.

Once you fix all the bugs make it M8.1 or something so we can distinguish between working and bugged versions.

The mutant's vision is a bug... on the marine, however, it clearly states that that is supposed to be his l4 on the changelist...

I put out an M8b with some fixes:
- Mutant night-vision is not free and eternal.
- All cannons at the south outpost are powered now.
- Special Ops can't abuse no-minecapping triggers to generate more mana in return than L4 costs.
- Added a failsafe for Assault getting stuck after L4.

Quote from ShredderIV

giving it a filename suffix would help us to distinguish when people were hosting the current v as opposed to an older version.

Hey, ShredderIV what you're talking about is called a title, not a filename!
My personal opinion is that it is best to leave the same filename among minor bugfixes because older versions will be automatically rewritten then.

Quote from Wormer

Quote from ShredderIV

giving it a filename suffix would help us to distinguish when people were hosting the current v as opposed to an older version.

Hey, ShredderIV what you're talking about is called a title, not a filename!
My personal opinion is that it is best to leave the same filename among minor bugfixes because older versions will be automatically rewritten then.

Or overridden by people hosting earlier versions.


It's really best to get it right the first time, if possible.

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

Quote from Wormer

Quote from ShredderIV

giving it a filename suffix would help us to distinguish when people were hosting the current v as opposed to an older version.

Hey, ShredderIV what you're talking about is called a title, not a filename!
My personal opinion is that it is best to leave the same filename among minor bugfixes because older versions will be automatically rewritten then.

Or overridden by people hosting earlier versions.


It's really best to get it right the first time, if possible.

Beta tests are for losers. But yeah, new filename for sure, we already learned that in MT (1.45, MT3, etc.)

Playing now. =)

Yeah who needs beta testing.

Quote from FaZ-

Quote from Tuxedo-Templar

Quote from Wormer

Quote from ShredderIV

giving it a filename suffix would help us to distinguish when people were hosting the current v as opposed to an older version.

Hey, ShredderIV what you're talking about is called a title, not a filename!
My personal opinion is that it is best to leave the same filename among minor bugfixes because older versions will be automatically rewritten then.

Or overridden by people hosting earlier versions.


It's really best to get it right the first time, if possible.

Beta tests are for losers. But yeah, new filename for sure, we already learned that in MT (1.45, MT3, etc.)

Playing now. =)

Plain old 1.4M was doing just fine till you came along with 1.45. 90% of the time, the most current one overwrote the old.

i beg to differ clans. expierence with unholys 1.5 was brutal. I kid you not I host the most current version and that is the only way i could play. If i joined a game i was constantly downloading it and then had to redownload the stupid thing from sen. New file name works the best and i'm glad he finally decided to make one each time.