I like the terrain changes; they're a whole lot more open space-wise. I thought the tightness of the terrain was somewhat of a problem in the other TS's. Good job moose. I haven't tested it thoroughly though.

People said they don't like M8b because the bottom doesn't look like a base, what do you think of that comment Moose?

1. Host game.
2. Before anyone else joins, hit OK. You are done.

Thanks, but I didn't make the terrain changes this time... they were done by xYoshix.

If you think the terrain is bad, then make me better terrain. Though I'd like better criticism than "it doesn't look like a base".
I have to say that I like the layout there... you can throw down a pylon and a pair of cannons by the geyser island right outside of the south post for guarded assim and route control.

No idea what gyser you changed I don't see a difference anywhere on the map Unless You maybe added some trees and thought that was good enough. First the gyser i'm talking about is the one defended by 3 of the top team's siege tanks. It is placed to the inside of the arena and the bottom's mirror gyser is placed to the outside of the area thus making the top gyser vulnerable to cannons. Also, when attacking the top gyser directly you will only be attacked by one cannon wether you are melee or ranged as you aren't in range of the other two. Compare this to the bottom where you will be hit by at least two execpt if you go thru the bottom base and attack it from behind which means youll be hit by cannons on the way to it.

well the one you talk of in another post along the bottom can defend spawn and guard the gyser fairly easily if you capture the outpost. My complaint here is it is better for bottom team beacuse if they cap the out post it completely cuts off the feed area between the base and outpost. If your the top it takes away your spawn microing space to accomplish the same thing and it doesn't cut off your feed very much due to where the spawn emerge/colide.

No idea where you get two from i count one middle left area of map. My point was some are not suitible to defend properly.


Fine if they are too big regardless they aren't the same size and it is rather annoying. Also the top one is off center and if your someone that has never used a map editor to look at this location It is quite a pain to memorize its total bounds as it doesn't tell you that you interupted them and your only feed back is when they capture it.



Still don't like the fact that 2 outposts are more important than 1 of them. I would be fine if it were just one outpost with an advantage but two kinda irks me. Guess i gotta get use to it since neither you or unholy wana change this ever.



There isn't much area to place let alone defend one near uncaptured outposts either top or bottom which imo is where one would like if they didn't capture an outpost.


Honestly moose when i tested this It appeared quite fast and thus I never upgraded it because I was using minerals on attack which i thought would benefit me quite a bit more. This is the reason why I brought it up. In solo mode It appeared much slower which makes me quite confused. I guess the reason I thought it was fast is because I was gaming instead of just playing to test it out. Either way a simple yes or no answer would have sufficed instead of addressing it this way.

????
Also, there's an e in "geyser". I thought it was a typo but you do it all the time.
Or I can actually refer you to this: http://www.staredit.net/?faq=2#grammar


My point was that it was improper to use the word "some".


Here's the thing. The other two locations have to cover the cannons as well, which the top base doesn't have. So, the location size on the top outpost is rather arbitrary. It won't matter when the capture system is redone because only the beacons will matter. Failing a redo of the capture system, I just make cap-blocking beacons only anyway.


I can understand for the bottom... top really isn't that bad, especially with all the widening that went on down there.


The relevant portions of that post was a flat-out lie that spawned 9 other posts about something that shouldn't have been discussed. Catching only sarcasm from me in return for the whole thing isn't too bad if you think about it. Please more thorough in your future testing as "bug" reports based on suspicion alone are more likely to be a waste of people's time.

I just wanted to mention that the spawning in single player mode for the opposite team was extremely wonky (I was North), all the units just sat in base. You may already know that, but I just wanted to note it.

After a couple games, you can know the capture bounds by heart, its not that hard.
Again, depth. Do you run in even though theirs less of a chance youll make it? Leave it and go help someone else? Run behind to capture the weak hero on his way out? (situational, but not too rare of a possibility.)


There isn't much area to place let alone defend one near uncaptured outposts either top or bottom which imo is where one would like if they didn't capture an outpost.[/quote]

Assuming both sides wanted an outpost, you wouldnt want one there because it would get killed during its building time, and not be worth the minerals at all. Also you put your probe in danger by simply moving it near a high-traffic area.

Still don't like the fact that 2 outposts are more important than 1 of them. I would be fine if it were just one outpost with an advantage but two kinda irks me. Guess i gotta get use to it since neither you or unholy wana change this ever.[/quote]

This is another strategic decision making point, see above.


Honestly moose when i tested this It appeared quite fast and thus I never upgraded it because I was using minerals on attack which i thought would benefit me quite a bit more. This is the reason why I brought it up. In solo mode It appeared much slower which makes me quite confused. I guess the reason I thought it was fast is because I was gaming instead of just playing to test it out. Either way a simple yes or no answer would have sufficed instead of addressing it this way.[/quote]

Moose was slightly offended by your comment, and thus had to defend himself.

Blame his addressing it on yourself.


This is a gameplay choice. See above.


Possibly, possibly, the one actual true issue addressed in this post. I havent played yet so i cannot say for sure, however.

EDIT: Just read moose's post. I feel kinda repetitive because he posted his before mine and i neglected to check, but meh. Due to the fact that this is false, please check your facts before posting.

There we go. The last one is possibly an issue, and im fine with you discussing that, yeah.

But if you want to discuss how you feel a map should be mirrored, then go make your own.

Fair =/= Mirrored.

Of course it is, I've used it myself.
There's more than fair warning on the single player test mode both in-game and on the changelist.
Another fun bit is that the game starts at night if you play the south team.

Yes, but you typed out a lot on gameplay choices and strategizing that I didn't feel like typing out. Thanks.

Also, mission objectives for special ops still says his L4 is Nuke, and why is the Assassin never removed at the bottom left after all the heroes are picked? Also, Dark Mage has a spell which creates a bunch of queens, and some of them cannot be built due to air restrictions, I haven't played TS in a while, so I'm not sure if that is intentional.

ok I spell bad gotcha.


So Certain units automatically lose outposts hmm? lets see lightmage too slow, sin slow and no dmg spells, ling no dmg. Idk i mean both sides i see where it is a pain to capture outposts but at same time units that can run arround like ling to interupt get no help at begining for doing that anymore.

If it stays as is or goes to size of beacons i think that favors the person on the beacon quite a bit. I can't tell you how many people i've seen die that thought they interupted and go in to interupt again and instead die to being trapped.

Idk what to tell you. I had absolutely no trouble killing the ling who ran away a ton. I guess I made a mistake. Often times when I see a bug its difficult to reproduce it. Sometimes its not. Never even thought to check it again. Still seems wierd though i just don't remember it being that slow.

***something new*** if bottom captures middle outpost the spawn from the gate are redirected arround a different way to the other base. If you fight to far in front you won't get the extra 2 kills as the white spawn will goble them before they arrive at your position.

Almost every time I host this, at least one person, sometimes more, spouts "this vers is gay" and bitches the whole game about the changes. It's sad how resistant people are to changes. My opinion on bottom is that it's a bit "curved" in relation to the other corners, maybe move it down and left to square it up a bit more?

Wish I could open the map to examine the terrain more closely. ><


That's in all TS games, it's a simple spacing problem, nothing you can do for that really.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 29 2009, 9:19 am by DrakeClawfang.

LastReplay.rep

That's been in the known issues in the topic page for awhile now.

It should be... I'll fix it.

The spell is weird. If the DM is moving, they'll place fine... standing still, they won't. I figured people are more likely to be moving towards or near a target when casting it.

Since I've already written on the subject and saved my post, here you go:


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 29 2009, 2:08 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

As to the base capture system, if that still doesnt work moose, you could always do away with the outpost idea altogether and just put cannons at intervals from the sides and middle to the base...

I've always thought that might work better, since the outpost system can be too easily skewed, having heroes who cap too easily and such making the game broken just cause they got those first outposts.

Anyways, I still dont like the terrain on the top outpost... I still think the cannons should be implemented onto the outpost so you dont have the ez night capping on it. It would be much better if they were there so they could at least attack the beacon. So many games with assault right now just go: ok guys, lets get mid n top, i can ez take top later, which gives that team a huge advantage.

I for one think that is an EXCELLENT idea! I can't wait until you implement it!

I discovered what might be a gamebreaking glitch for the dark mage.

I use my l4, on a spec ops, who was on his last life.
He dies.
His Gateway dies, but broodlings AND scourges continue to spawn there, and kill the pylon.
The scourges had free roam on the entire map, however they had 50 HP and died in one hit from cannons. I experimented with them, and they don't do anything to the heros, however, since their suicide is 50 dmg, I was able to kill any airborne units with them.
There were about 60 scourges that spawned total.

Here is the replay

Attachments:

Yeah, I actually had that happen to me too. The problem was when I redid how the L4 Broodlings spawn, I didn't factor in that someone might get eliminated or leave the game.

Also, DM's l4 keeps on spawning broods regardless of how many broods are around the hero. This may be because of a small location being used for the counting of the broodlings.

Got the devourer glitch again, this time it happened while an enemy Archer used theirL1 near me as I used my L1 as Light Mage.

It probably just seeeeeems that way, since the brood count to spawn around a player was increased to 15 broods as opposed to the former 5.

No, it just has a higher max count.