I would like to know the correlation between being an asshole and having no idea what you're talking about. Just because you are one, doesn't mean you are the other. I think people are entitled to play the game as they wish but people give advice because usually someone that you would consider "more fit" is not around. There is a lot of questions being asked Excalibur, and you're not always around to answer them all. Complied with the fact that you won't support HoN anymore, who are people going to ask? Sometimes the fun in the game is try a new build and not sticking to the boring cookie cutter build. Some people play for fun, others for wins. People are trying to help, and sometimes, they do give bad advice, but in no way does that make them bad people.

Quote from Ultimo

I would like to know the correlation between being an asshole and having no idea what you're talking about.

Most of the time they're the same person.

Quote from Ultimo

I think people are entitled to play the game as they wish but people give advice because usually someone that you would consider "more fit" is not around.

I am working under the assumption our worse players are trying to get better. I doubt there is any question that can't wait. Also, I find that I am around more than anyone else. Unless I'm sleeping, I'm reachable, as my activity (Second to none, equal to Moose) attests.

Quote from Ultimo

There is a lot of questions being asked Excalibur, and you're not always around to answer them all. Complied with the fact that you won't support HoN anymore, who are people going to ask?

I never said I'd stop answering questions. Phobos bothers me 10 times a day about HoN questions. What I won't do is advise anyone to buy this game. I encourage piracy of it from now on. We'll see who is costing S2 more money.

Quote from Ultimo

Sometimes the fun in the game is try a new build and not sticking to the boring cookie cutter build. Some people play for fun, others for wins.

See above.

Quote from Ultimo

People are trying to help, and sometimes, they do give bad advice, but in no way does that make them bad people.

As long as they admit they're wrong, it's not a problem. However some of them are delusional enough that they think they're right, and that's a problem.

As I said in the shoutbox last night, I have nothing to do with HoN and no interest in it (mostly due to the fact that I don't care much for DotA and the like), but I did want to just say that what you said, Ex, made me really appreciate how we do things here on SEN. Hell if the staff forum isn't evidence enough, all the mods are supportive and listen to each other. We may disagree at times, but I don't think we'd ever have to deal with something like that. I'm glad you're standing up for what you believe is right, and I think you are right to do so.

/My off-topic 2 cents.

Although I do think you were pretty strict, it's retarded that S2Games (or Chavo) is so money hungry. It's still closed beta, and they're already reaping cash from preorders.

the problem is, with the preorders, that s2 doesnt have any money, and they need money to keep HoN alive, since they have to pay programmers and such...

with that said, i dont think they should put preorders over community, and they shouldnt be pushing them... It feels like, kinda as a bad example, the nazi regime, where any german who wasnt a nazi was outcasted just because they weren't.

in any case, inda same as ultimo ex, in the fact that, if i'm doing something wrong in a agme, and someone tells me it's wrong, i do nothing... If they tell me it's wrong and how to fix it, I will do what they say, but if it doesnt work better i will revert to what i was doing. I don't mind you giving me advice ex, but also when you went on a huge rant about how everyone says i suck, you were judging me not from your own experiences, but from other people's, and may have labeled me as one of those assholes. that is all.

also, i hate some of the HoN forums simply because their community sucks... So when the game comes out and all those assholes are playing, that might move me away from it. In the long run, community will win over gameplay for me.

Quote from ShredderIV

also, i hate some of the HoN forums simply because their community sucks... So when the game comes out and all those assholes are playing, that might move me away from it. In the long run, community will win over gameplay for me.

Sucks? I think you mean..

Quote from ShredderIV

also, i hate some of the HoN forums simply because their community sucks is the same egotistical group of kids who think they're something because they're lagging and don't realize it, or they're the kind of people who think a $3000 tricked out gaming computer is cheap; or think 100$ a month is affordable by everyone. So when the game comes out and all those assholes are playing, that might move me away from it. In the long run, community will win over gameplay for me.

I think you're in the wrong there, Ex. Kids will be kids. Imposing standards in a serious discussion or a balance topic is one thing (which you guys do a terrible job at, by the way), but there needs to be a place for morons to post stupid stuff. The majority of any large community is going to be idiots, (especially DotA/HoN) you can't change that by limiting their posts; all you're going to do is piss them off needlessly.

I never even knew there was an off topic forum, which is exactly how it should be. People who are there for the game can be there for the game, and people who are there to be retards/4chan/scum can do that. S2Games is a business. SEN is a (poor) investment, and so it can afford to enforce whatever arbitrary rules it wants. You need to realize the difference before making a judgment like you did.

As for advice, after seeing some of the things you posted I don't really think you're that much better than many of the rest of us. Your advice is always for pubbing, which gets you better at pubbing and gets you nowhere serious in the end. My skills may not be great yet, but after 0 DotA experience my stats and win rate have been continuously climbing in every category and with multiple, various heroes. Above all, I read the guides by top level players who are better than either of us, and following their advice for competitive, top-level gaming is certainly better than whatever either of us could come up with on our own.

Most people reads guides for heroes. But just because you can follow a guide down to the letter doesn't mean you'll get any better. The ability of application is what separates bad players from good players.

Quote from FaZ-

I think you're in the wrong there, Ex. Kids will be kids. Imposing standards in a serious discussion or a balance topic is one thing (which you guys do a terrible job at, by the way), but there needs to be a place for morons to post stupid stuff. The majority of any large community is going to be idiots, (especially DotA/HoN) you can't change that by limiting their posts; all you're going to do is piss them off needlessly.

They will either learn there is no place for that or will get themselves into trouble. Pissing them off is irrelevant. There is no place for dick jokes and meme spouting on any forum worth a shit.

Quote from FaZ-

I never even knew there was an off topic forum, which is exactly how it should be. People who are there for the game can be there for the game, and people who are there to be retards/4chan/scum can do that. S2Games is a business. SEN is a (poor) investment, and so it can afford to enforce whatever arbitrary rules it wants. You need to realize the difference before making a judgment like you did.

I knew the difference, and that doesn't change my priorities. I was glad to help them manage their community properly but if they want money they better talk to marketing and sales. Not my department.

Quote from FaZ-

As for advice, after seeing some of the things you posted I don't really think you're that much better than many of the rest of us. Your advice is always for pubbing, which gets you better at pubbing and gets you nowhere serious in the end.

The majority of SEN players are looking to get good at pubbing, and so that's what I've helped them with. I've also played league in DOTA with a team of dedicated individuals.

Quote from FaZ-

My skills may not be great yet, but after 0 DotA experience

Stop right there.
This is what bothers me about you. You have to realize I have 3 years of experience in both pub and league that you do not. No guide by any level of player is going to give you what those years have given me. I admit that pub and the league were almost two different games when comparing how to play them properly, but I have yet to see any evidence that you know that difference yourself. It's not something a guide is going to teach you. A lot of the time I read your posts and it's like Shredder trying to give me a lesson on maturity, it's just laughable.

You are one of the individuals I'm talking about up there, you need to let our pubbers learn to be pubbers (Hence why I give them pubbing advice) and let our more serious players do and learn for themselves in some cases, and if not, link them to the guides. I don't feel any amount of guides you may have read have taught you enough, nor do I feel any amount of games you've played thus far make you any sort of authority and certainly not one to contest with me.

Respond as you will, but I'm not going to go back and fourth with you on this. It's done.

Quote from FaZ-

I think you're in the wrong there, Ex. Kids will be kids. Imposing standards in a serious discussion or a balance topic is one thing (which you guys do a terrible job at, by the way), but there needs to be a place for morons to post stupid stuff. The majority of any large community is going to be idiots, (especially DotA/HoN) you can't change that by limiting their posts; all you're going to do is piss them off needlessly.

I never even knew there was an off topic forum, which is exactly how it should be. People who are there for the game can be there for the game, and people who are there to be retards/4chan/scum can do that. S2Games is a business. SEN is a (poor) investment, and so it can afford to enforce whatever arbitrary rules it wants. You need to realize the difference before making a judgment like you did.

As for advice, after seeing some of the things you posted I don't really think you're that much better than many of the rest of us. Your advice is always for pubbing, which gets you better at pubbing and gets you nowhere serious in the end. My skills may not be great yet, but after 0 DotA experience my stats and win rate have been continuously climbing in every category and with multiple, various heroes. Above all, I read the guides by top level players who are better than either of us, and following their advice for competitive, top-level gaming is certainly better than whatever either of us could come up with on our own.

I agree 100% with the bold writing. I would much sooner listen to FaZ- in terms of advice for this game so far from what I've seen in this topic.

Anyone who complains/vows vengeance/takes shit seriously on a forum is an idiot. Ex, this technically puts you in that broad category, but know I'm siding with you here, and your actions seem the least stupid of the bunch. Anyone who would refuse to buy the game because the mods on the FORUM were "unfair" would probably just pirate the game anyway, or never buy it in the first place. S2 is stupid for thinking that these people might actually buy the game if the mods are fair.

You are in the right Ex, but come on. There is no need to make any more fuss over it. HoN is still a good game, and well worth $30 if you enjoy it. S2 has released a freeware version of both their (strikingly original) games after 3/1 years of coming out. I say bravo to them for that--they're one of the few game companies do this. I'm quite frankly surprised that they actually make money, considering savage and savage 2 sold very little. Now they have an awesome game which far exceeds either of the previous two games in terms of size, and has some serious operating costs. All free of charge. Please, quit the forum, not the game, or the company. Remember that normal person + anonymity + audience = total fuckwad. In the actual game, they're too busy actually playing.

Quote from Norm

I agree 100% with the bold writing. I would much sooner listen to FaZ- in terms of advice for this game so far from what I've seen in this topic

At least you admit you have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from rockz

Anyone who complains/vows vengeance/takes shit seriously on a forum is an idiot. Ex, this technically puts you in that broad category, but know I'm siding with you here, and your actions seem the least stupid of the bunch. Anyone who would refuse to buy the game because the mods on the FORUM were "unfair" would probably just pirate the game anyway, or never buy it in the first place. S2 is stupid for thinking that these people might actually buy the game if the mods are fair.

Chavo's reasoning was that my moderation was so strict it was going to cost them sales. I am going to prove that making the more dedicated and reasonable members angry hurts the game much more than pissing off the people who go around consistently breaking rules.

Please remember, these forums are all I do, all I have. I do not socialize, I do not work, I do not go to school. I have my duties on various sites, those are my job, I have the communities, these are where I am social.

Quote from rockz

You are in the right Ex, but come on. There is no need to make any more fuss over it.

I haven't even begun to make a fuss.

Quote from rockz

HoN is still a good game, and well worth $30 if you enjoy it.

Sure. They got my 30$, and knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have given them a dime. They made a poor choice and I will see to it that it costs them.

Quote from rockz

Please, quit the forum, not the game, or the company. Remember that normal person + anonymity + audience = total fuckwad. In the actual game, they're too busy actually playing.

I will continue to play but I am exacting payment. They owe me for every person I've invited that pre-orders, as well as my own. If I can keep 20 or so people from buying the game, then I'll call it even. But not a moment or dollar before.

Even though you always flame me Ex, You can strike one person off that list for people you prevent from buying it. I actually wouldn't have bought it anyway, but I am being a good e-buddy and letting you feel this accomplishment. Just stop flaming me so much, unless I'll go out and pre-order that shit RIGHT NOW.

p.s. It might be a good idea to get out and do non-forum related activities.

p.p.s. It sounds like a really cool game though, I'm just happy playing SC, so I have no reason to buy any more games.

Quote from Excalibur

I haven't even begun to make a fuss.

It depends on your definition of fuss.

Quote from Excalibur

I encourage piracy of it from now on. We'll see who is costing S2 more money.

Quote from Excalibur

I deleted the majority of my own posts, and called it quits.

I consider this a fuss, and ultimately childish. Locking the other topic also seemed like a decision made in anger. Ultimately, it caused drama here on SEN, which could have been avoided by posting your initial explanation in the old thread.

Quote from Excalibur

Chavo's reasoning was that my moderation was so strict it was going to cost them sales. I am going to prove that making the more dedicated and reasonable members angry hurts the game much more than pissing off the people who go around consistently breaking rules.

Both of you are correct. Strict moderation hurts sales. Non-strict moderation will also hurt sales. I personally believe you're screwed either way.

It's too bad you didn't change your moderation stance just a little. After working for the forest service this summer, I found myself ridiculously annoyed of the woeful inefficiency of the service. However, I did my job, and gave my suggestions on how to improve the process (usually on deaf ears). Granted, I was getting paid for my time, but I find everything is more simple if you keep an open mind, especially when talking to your superiors. Had you stayed a mod, you could still provide the service which I presume you enjoy doing (why else would you do it?) and you could make the community a much better place in the long run, probably by taking more of a laissez-faire approach. Perhaps it's just because I'm more of a bender than a breaker.

No matter how you moderate, you will annoy someone. And when it comes to employers, they often won't listen to what their employees got to say, at least in my experience.

Quote from Norm

Even though you always flame me Ex,

I only have a problem when you get pushy about music. I hate metal and the majority of metal heads I have had the displeasure to meet were ignorant fools who needed a haircut badly.

Quote from Norm

p.s. It might be a good idea to get out and do non-forum related activities.

I have no desire to do so. Nothing outside of the realm of the internet interests me at all.

Quote from Norm

p.p.s. It sounds like a really cool game though, I'm just happy playing SC, so I have no reason to buy any more games.

It's a good game, I just wish the company paid more attention to who they put in charge.

Quote from rockz

I consider this a fuss, and ultimately childish. Locking the other topic also seemed like a decision made in anger. Ultimately, it caused drama here on SEN, which could have been avoided by posting your initial explanation in the old thread.

I have the right to remove any contributions I have made both here and there. Its my post/topic and I can do what I choose with it.

Quote from rockz

Both of you are correct. Strict moderation hurts sales. Non-strict moderation will also hurt sales. I personally believe you're screwed either way.

I disagreed that there was anything wrong in what I was expecting out of the OT section.

Quote from rockz

It's too bad you didn't change your moderation stance just a little.

Again, there was nothing wrong in my methods or expectations. They were both reasonable and done correctly.

Quote from rockz

Had you stayed a mod, you could still provide the service which I presume you enjoy doing (why else would you do it?) and you could make the community a much better place in the long run, probably by taking more of a laissez-faire approach. Perhaps it's just because I'm more of a bender than a breaker.

As long as Chavo is in charge, and he will be for as long as they let him, there is nothing I or anyone else could do. As for bender/breaker, I am all or nothing in just about everything I do, and that's how I like it.

Quote

A lot of the time I read your posts and it's like Shredder trying to give me a lesson on maturity, it's just laughable.

now ex, i have tried to keep my faith in you because i know that you're a good player and have had this experience, and are overall, a great forum moderator. I also respect you a lot for having the balls to stand up for what you believe in, that you wouldnt put marketing over community.

But pulling me into this and saying things like this is exactly the reason why you've been getting most of your crap. How can you judge me on maturity... It's a forum, and you have no idea how mature or immature i am just by reading my posts. Don't put those judgements on me and others, and i think you may have an easier time helping us all learn how to play HoN and you might make the community better as a whole.

and btw, as a forum mod, you're supposed to cut out the flamers, not flame people you don't like and be allowed to get away with it. So thanks for the flame, bud.

Quote from ShredderIV

now ex, i have tried to keep my faith in you because i know that you're a good player and have had this experience, and are overall, a great forum moderator. I also respect you a lot for having the balls to stand up for what you believe in, that you wouldnt put marketing over community.

Why thank you sir.

Quote from ShredderIV

But pulling me into this and saying things like this is exactly the reason why you've been getting most of your crap. How can you judge me on maturity... It's a forum, and you have no idea how mature or immature i am just by reading my posts. Don't put those judgements on me and others, and i think you may have an easier time helping us all learn how to play HoN and you might make the community better as a whole.

You're immature on here, and this is the only place I know you. It's not a flame, it's the truth, and in truth you can conduct yourself how you wish. If you want to continue how you have been, fine and dandy. If you want to act a bit more mature and such, that's fine too. It really doesn't matter to me. I think it's rather foolish of you to say I shouldn't base my opinion of you on your posts since that is what represents you here on SEN.

Anyway I was just using that as an example. Sorry you took such great offense to it.

Quote

You're immature on here, and this is the only place I know you. It's not a flame, it's the truth, and in truth you can conduct yourself how you wish. If you want to continue how you have been, fine and dandy. If you want to act a bit more mature and such, that's fine too. It really doesn't matter to me. I think it's rather foolish of you to say I shouldn't base my opinion of you on your posts since that is what represents you here on SEN.

i get what you mean... and if you mean the shoutbox convos, i definitely get what you mean.

Well, whatever drama you think you're going to cause: no one really cares. There's 3 people from my college who played the game before me, and I'm sure I would have gotten a beta key at some point, if not from you.

S2Games is a great company, they've been my favorite behind Blizzard since Savage 1, and that's doesn't look to be changing anytime soon. You want to be a hardass and impose strict moral standards in an online community for a game, and that will never work to grow it. I speak from experience, I've been in charge of an online site where I have twice as many posts as you do, Ex, for the past 3-4 years. You have to let the little shit go or you just look like a totalitarian asshole. Are you right? Sure, but you're sure as hell not going to teach people to be moral individuals on a gaming website. If you don't actually do anything social, you're probably not the best teacher of that anyway.