Some people post just for the sake of posting. That's why you have people already into positive minerals and 500+ post counts.

Tux: It doesn't dictate my mood... But we still have to clean up after the mess.
It's like going to the carnival to clean out the 100 port o poties... Yeah, you'll get to one where it's like some poop bomb exploded and it's even on the ceiling. That instance isn't going to get you down... just the general fact that you are doing it all in the first place.
Hopefully that's clear enough

On the ceiling huh? Don't they hire out cleaning for those? Like they do with vending machine restocking and such?
(and hopefully not by the same company )


I can't really suggest anything you don't already know about moderating/admining, but I don't think a lot of the so-called drama here is really as much of a big deal as people make it out to be. Yoshi, DTBK and a few others (and even myself from time to time) have tendencies to explode into rantatious verbosity over simple issues or posts at times, but I can't rightly determine if that's the cause of or an effect from the drama lately. At the very least though, it is just more of it.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 22 2007, 12:47 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Tux I won't argue but,I will however add on,See not only do we have people like yoshi and such.We have the people starting it from what I have noticed at this time its falkoner,desp,and a few osmap haters.No offense to none of you guys but,the point is why argue when rules are clear I had to learn to deal with both SEN and MAplantis rules.What makes anyone else different,besides ofcourse the makers of the site?I guess what I am saying is IP you need to find a way to either add a rule to settle the arguements or set up a topic to let the people help with the rules.I will say though I like the rules they are clean and simple.

Kids don't get paid to write essays and papers in school, but plagarism is still wrong.\

Also, there is nothing wrong with paying someone to make maps. It's when you SELL the map that Blizzard has a problem. They've paid their own staff to make the maps that came with the game and the maps of the week/month/whatever they did for awhile.

Ok, lets put this to a test. Take blizzards campaign maps, and then edit them a little bit slightly, claim the whole thing as your own work and see what happens.

He took your statement all wrong, but...


Everyone's maps belong to blizzard. Invalid analogy. (obviously map stealing is wrong, but your analogy still seems invalid)

I STILL haven't heard a strong arguement for pro-protection/anti-osmap/anti-open source. I still remain neutral though, people who like protection don't bother me. Although, throughout the entirity of this huge arguement, not one good arguement has been made for not hosting OSMap on this site (that I can recall). If someone could make a clean cut, succinct arguement, minus all the bs and bickering, for this, then I would love to see it. Please, do me the favor.

On a few side notes: Has kellimus at least been warned (to any extent, again) for flaming, spamming, and trolling?

And, I think a clear statement needs to be made against the type of shit that happened in this topic. If Kellimus wants to start making it personal, fucking send yoshi a PM. If you are just doing it in order to parade it around in front of the community, and continually say as you post that you don't know why you continue to bother, that these or those people "are the only ones that really matter", then you are in the wrong place. Same goes for anyone else who makes posts that are totally off-topic and starts huge off-topic arguements in the middle of threads when they are simply personal disputes between yourselves. Even though I believe Yoshi was right in almost everything he said, he probably could have ended it earlier. You don't need to prove anything to me, or the majority of this community. Send the guy a pm saying how wrong he is and that you don't care (or some variant of that action). Some types giant arguements in topics like this can make community progress, clear the air, define opinions of how things should be, but what it ended up like in here cannot.

I think it also fairly obvious that since Kellimus made the same exact arguements of the troll in two different topics (and off-topic in both), what he was doing was even more invalid.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 21 2007, 11:25 pm by Dapperdan.

We aren't pushing "pro-protection" or "protect everything". Open source is a perfectly fine thing, issues arrive when we have problems with how open-source is to be enforced and what maps it applies to (for example, all maps through OSMAP.exe). We are pushing for respect of the mapper's wishes. We simply want MUTUAL RESPECT for each other, the maps that we make (regardless of ownership), and the intentions of the mapper... and OSMAP.exe is not required for that.

If Yoshi abandoned his indirect support of map cracking, the entire charade would fall to pieces.

Ok, that is all fine, and sounds pretty similar to Maplantis but...


That's why OSMap can't be hosted here? I'm still neutral, and I guess I'll go back to not arguing about it at all again. Just a make a decision fair to both sides and I guess we'll be totally fine. OSMap not being hosted here isn't the end of the world (not to mention kind of pointless), and being able to host it here is just as well fine.

Hosting it would signify that SEN supports map cracking. I'd be surprised to learn SEN is now supporting map cracking.

And I would of gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling Esponeo, and that dumb zergling.

Did osmap not help fix maps with some certain bug with a new patch?
Do people who make maps sometimes ask for a way to open their own protected map?
Who here goes "god damn, I wish osmap was on sen because i want to steal maps?"

You know, you DID make a point there

EDIT: But it is more likely like: OMFG I CANNOT OPEN MAP WTF I CLICKED SAVE PROTECTED ON SF AND MY MAP GOT SCREWED

To let everything earlier slide and address the issue at hand:

Quote

As for the 'issue', I would be very happy with hosting protection and supporting open source, but not supporting map cracking programs. But if you absolutely must go ahead and make concessions to these people, then just don't host either protection or map cracking programs.

Seconded.

I address this in talking about the topic at hand in my first post, but it was overwhelmed with 'wtf OSMAP is good'.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

We aren't pushing "pro-protection" or "protect everything". Open source is a perfectly fine thing, issues arrive when we have problems with how open-source is to be enforced and what maps it applies to (for example, all maps through OSMAP.exe). We are pushing for respect of the mapper's wishes. We simply want MUTUAL RESPECT for each other, the maps that we make (regardless of ownership), and the intentions of the mapper... and OSMAP.exe is not required for that.

Exactly.

I can't really put what Moose and Shmidley said any better.

---

Quote

I can't even give a valid excuse for it other then I just didn't feel like "SEN".

Really, that is a valid excuse

Quote

Yoshi, DTBK and a few others (and even myself from time to time) have tendencies to explode into rantatious verbosity over simple issues or posts at times

rantatious verbosity.. <3

DTBK called me Shmidley. I have never been so touched as I have at this moment.

I say let OSMap exist for its uses, but don't officially support it. Let it just be. Teach fair use of it, and punish aggressors. Nobody really wins, but nobody really loses either. It's called the art of compromise and not always getting what you want. I would personally love to see the end of this season of the SEN soap opera. I really want to get back to people hacking SEN and stuff. /sarcasm

I agree. I think a neutral position on protection vs unprotection is the best policy for SEN. Don't support either, let people do what they want as long as they aren't stealing maps. Maybe you can lean towards respecting author's wishes, if it is explicitly stated by the author.

You either host protection and unprotection programs or neither.

That makes sense, considering protection can exist on its own and unprotection's only purpose is to cancel out the former. Having both is the same thing as having neither. You might as well store matter and anti-matter in the same universe.

Why are you even pretending to support unprotection anyway? You protect your maps, because, in your owns words, you are afraid of people stealing them.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 22 2007, 3:49 am by Esponeo.

Exactly, that's why I'm more in favor of neither. Unprotection owns protection anyway. It's really a back and forth war which unprotection is currently winning and will continue to win.