They apparently don't care.

I care. I really, really hope Isolated Purity has more reason for keeping Yoshi on as a mod than the fact that he started this site.

Nobody cares about my idea?

Gerrard your idea makes no sense.

Moderating, news posting, community management, and helping to do a little bit of code. I haven't completely started doing most of these things, I plan to given permission and time.

He also wears dresses.

Kell, you are trolling, flaming, and trying to provoke. Just stop. People change opinions and such. The one thing that started the whole split to two sites was yoshi's sudden (sudden = to me anyways) viewpoint change from super-pro-protection to super-pro-unprotection.
So, and I hope you aren't offended, but this is basically the truth as I saw it: Yoshi went from protection zealot to unprotection zealot and this angered me (and I think moose?) to the point where we were all like "f*** off" to each other and it just escalated from there.

NOW, things are different. Moose isn't, from what I see, isn't as hard-core protection, yoshi is practically neutral, slightly on the unprotection side, while I am, and generally always been, neutral with a general protection stance, though I believe osmap can be beneficial.

As such, we can generally get together...

Almost as if he has no mind of his own and merely goes along with whatever appears to be "hip" at the moment. This is how I see most of the people who support unprotection. Very few of them needed to be convinced that such a thing was a good idea, they merely went along with it. Why? I do not know.

This is why I cannot give any respect to him or others who do not think things through.

Actually, Esp, I would guess that yoshi did think things through... quite a bit... If anything, some people may have blindly followed him without thinking...
He's like a natural leader

I wouldn't know. I thought you were saying he changed suddenly as if he did not think it through.

Either way, followers be damned.

It seems that unable to look towards the future, we have begun looking towards the past. I guess there is nothing more to say.

I think being hostile to Yoshi has the exact opposite effect on forums than instant messaging. On IM, he will stop talking. On forums, he'll continue BSing his way through the "shit" that he wanted to ignore on IM. Clearly, he's appealing to the masses with his oh-so-awesome stature and secretly hoping that no one reads his posts because he's "Yoshi" and thus they're clearly infallible despite it containing obvious logical errors as well as hypocrisy.

Proof:
Awww... But he continues posting here despite being "attacked" by Kellimus and Esponeo. Of course, if he isn't being attacked, then IP's first sentence in the previous post has no basis. So, clearly, we see hypocrisy.

Now, let's go back to what's really important. Should SEN host VB programs? Answer: no. So stop arguing.

Uh, to elaborate... right now there are no moderators setting precedents for this site. Functions and features are still being created and worked on. We are sitting in purgatory waiting for something to happen and we are filling the time by debating this shit, when we have done so a million times before and none of us are gaining anything from it. When that became apparent, we started looking at the past. My primary motivation for posting is that I'm sitting between classes with nothing to do. Does anyone have a legitimate reason, or is this discussion a farce?

My secondary motivation is an inordinate amount of pride that requires me to respond to his own "attacks" so we end up just going back and forth for all eternity.

If by "we" you mean you and kell, then you are right. Me and yoshi are looking towards the future while you are trolling with past details.

And when I said "suddenly to me," I meant it. We weren't talking every day. There was weeks where we wouldn't say hi. There are times I wasn't online for months. Sudden to me = Yoshi never said anything to me like "Oh hey, unprotection... yeah... I'm starting to think it may be best for the community while protection is ruining mapping" and a few days later was like "hmmm... i dunno... unprotection... it might make maps better, at the small cost of noobs trying to steal maps... do the pros outweigh the cons...? hmm...".
Not because he wasn't like that, but beause we weren't talking to each other through his transition. So to me, it was one day pro-protection, one day pro-unprotection. Transition for him? Yes. Transition for me about his transition? No.
And it's not like it is his job to tell me everything that's going on with his mind.

Shit esp... why don't *you* think instead of taking everything at surface level and twisting it to fit what you want it to be.

I haven't seen Iso pwn anyone for a while...

Thx for the pwnage of meh and Esp Iso




And I am neutral on the OSMAP thing, I've already stated that.


The reason I "trolled" Yoshi, is because he is provoking argument by posting "lets discuss about OSMAP"



What is there to discuss that has not already been discussed?



What it seems to me (Face value), is that he did that to purposely start shit. Which in turn, made me angry at him (for proving he hasn't changed like he states he has) so I attacked him by attacking things in the past.



Which is what he was trying to discuss: OSMAP. In other words: THE PAST.


So, sorry Iso for cluttering the forum, but I just think its rediculous that he thinks he gets "high status" just because he is Yoshi and 'made' SeN.

Which is why, I agree with this quote right here:
Because honestly, I truely feel that's the only reason Yoshi is/would be Admin/Mod.. He abandonded SeN how many times (and weren't all these times when SeN was REALLY BAD????)? And he abandoned the Map Making community and uses the excuse "i missed it" to come back, and everyone believes him because well, "He's Yoshi"?


That's why I'm angered... Hope you can see why Iso

Except... you don't know what it's like to be us. It's easy to get discouraged by mixing responsibility with something that should be a fun hobby. We want to code and build a web site and do new and exciting things to make SC mapping better... put good maps on all your harddrives... have fun...
And yet, we get stuck babysitting people while doing this all. Wasting our time making posts such the ones in this topic.

Like now... I'm extremely frustrated that we don't have the dldb up yet, even though I got pretty stable .chk method. I've been sick the last few days and just have no motivation to do anything. I spent yesterday laying on the couch watching south park. Alone. When just a week earlier, my gf was complaining that I was on the computer TOO MUCH. Fuck, I even took my computer to my gf's house so I could work on the dldb while she was visiting with her brothers. Imagine that. I packed up my *desktop* computer to work on SEN in my gf's parent's basement.
So now I'm getting frustrated due to my lack of productivity... due to this topic and the esp sucks topic... the whole moose thing which still isn't fixed, even though I did a query that was supposedly supposed to reset the auto increment value...
And before, with the v4 hacking, all the noobishness, the flaming, the drama...

Don't you think that our fun hobby turns into horrible WORK sometimes?
I'm not saying Yoshi made no mistakes. I'm not saying I made no mistakes. I let SEN down as well... how long was it down for? 2-3 months? I can't even give a valid excuse for it other then I just didn't feel like "SEN".

AND THEN... all of a sudden, you get this new breath and you are like FUCK YEAH, let's do some coding again. It snowballs into sexy scripts and new site sections... new perspectives on how to do things... and it's fun again.
And then the cycle repeats itself because of general idiots who just take everything that goes into a site for granted. Who want to bicker about every god damn thing. Who think they can do no wrong. That their opinions are hard truth.


Yoshi said why he made this topic. He even ASKED ME about making this topic. We need a solid stance on what we are doing with protection/unprotection because we need some type of guideline. Otherwise, one mod will be deleting osmap posts while another will be letting it slide. And then we have inconsistancy. And that is horrible for a moderating team. It creates confusion, anger, frustration. And guess what? We are ASKING THE COMMUNITY for such a stance. Not just what we think is right or wrong. And like he said, some people's opinions have changed. Just like his opinion on protection/unprotection changed a bit.
Why is he back here? Like he said, he wants to be a part of a map making community... but can not afford all the time maplantis was requiring from him while trying to do another seriously big project. So I get what I want: someone who I can generally rely on, who wants the same things for SEN as I want: to make it great... with great maps... and a great dldb... and a great tutorial section... And he gets what he wants: to be apart in crafting it to be so.

Erm... hm. Now can we mature the fuck up and talk about the issue on hand... MATURELY.

I say this topic is pretty much done with. I tried to make some intelligent posts, and some other people did too, but then a few little sensationalists came along flinging their poop like monkeys.

As for the 'issue', I would be very happy with hosting protection and supporting open source, but not supporting map cracking programs. But if you absolutely must go ahead and make concessions to these people, then just don't host either protection or map cracking programs.

I feel like I have failed majestically. I really do not know how to react to these topics or posts. It quickly became apparent that it was devolving into bickering, so I go and try to talk to Yoshi on AIM about it instead of getting into it here, but he refuses to discuss it, claiming that he is above discussing it further. But I feel like I cannot let it go on here either. I don't know, you tell me what the best way to react to this sort of thing is. I honestly don't know.

It's not like he disappeared leaving SEN in a state of chaos with no admin. He had IP and other admins take over. He could have easily just shut the site down completely and let it die.

Maybe talking to yoshi on aim before it gets to bickering instead of trying to single one person out in a thread that is about the community?

Man, it's the same everywhere. The trick is to not let the negativity get to you. People always know what they want to say, but never what they should; or whether they should, for that matter. They really don't know shit.

Look at the filth people make and play on bnet, for example. Look at it, and then decide if you really want to let that kind of audience dictate your mood for the day. If I'd done that (and by rights I should have many times over by now), I wouldn't still be making maps.