This is what happened to Spec Ops just because it had a bad L2 (even though its L4 plenty made up for it). So then it was given an outrageously powerful L2 and L3, that when combined with its L4 allows it to rape literally EVERY hero (maybe of the exception of Mutant).
Special Ops has already been changed as
I have detailed his changes in this topic already.
:: SPECIAL OPS
- Comsat Station is removed upon elimination. So is the Silo for Assault. That one isn't quite
as important.
- Cost of Scanner Sweep reduced from 70 to 65.
I'm completely lost, Mini Moose. Are there any changes to l2-4?
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
Spec Ops was chosen as an example, which is not what my argument is about. Although I don't see how the Comsat being removed upon elimination is going to change the Spec Ops' spells..
As FaZ- has pointed out, the fact still remains that nobody has said Mutant's L4 is not powerful enough.
That's funny, I can distinctly read many comments relating to its L4 never being used, not worth getting and people giving ways to improve it (including increased time limit which would assume IT'S NOT ALREADY POWERFUL ENOUGH) as well as a direct "The Mutant's L4 is weak" comment and a "does not compare well to other L4s".
Since you've made the distinction between "powerful" and "useful", I would like to make the distinction that when a spell is improved it does not necessarily become more powerful. A spell is also improved when it becomes more useful.
As I said, all the "improvement" ideas just seem to be direct power increase such as increase timer and multiple Ultra spawns. What they don't realize is that it's a 150+12 damage Ultralisk with a lot of Hp, speed and armor. The spell strengths of each level need to relate to each other and the hero. Mutant already has 4 VERY useful and powerful spells, and the people who only agree that the number is 3 would also agree that it does fine without its L4 anyway.
None.
Whoops, I was thinking of Assault. The fact that I couldn't decide on Special Ops' changes were why I wasn't releasing the next version.
It's in my copy, though:
****************************
**** ****** ***** **********
*** TEMPLE SIEGE 1.4M5 ***
**** ****** ***** **********
****************************
:: GENERAL
- Assimilators now have 600 shields and 600 HP.
- Day/Night cycles now continue indefinitely. A trigger error previously limited to the number of human players in the game +2.
:: ASSASSIN
- Fixed string that said Decapitation's (L4) upgrade damage was +30 and not +40.
:: ASSAULT
- Tear Gas (L2) is now a one-hit spell that drains 25 mana and SLOWS enemy heroes for 70 counts.
- Firebomb (L3) now spawns two Infested Terrans. They are created BEFORE the firebats, so they will spawn in the center.
- Cost of Nuclear Missile reduced from 10m/100g to 10m/60g.
:: LIGHT MAGE
- Light of Binding (L3) Dragoons now have the range upgrade.
:: SPECIAL OPS
- Comsat Station is removed upon elimination. So is the Silo for Assault. That one isn't quite as important.
- Cost of Scanner Sweep reduced from 70 to 65.
- Moved Sniper Rifle to L3. The effect is the same, damage increased to 75 + 8.
- Moved Carpet Bomber to L4. Removed Mine Drone.
- L2 now summons (or recharges) a Science Vessel. It works like the Dark Mage's L1. Science Vessels have 200 max energy, but you can research to 250 for 30 minerals.
- Fixed Bug with Sniper Rifle where you would be stuck outside the arena.
:: WARRIOR
- Charge of Courage (L3) now destroys player summons of the other team.
:: VOLT
- P12 Scourge resulting from Volt's L1 in combination with other spells are now removed.
- Heavy trigger reorganization and consolidation. If we're lucky, I didn't break anything.
And looking at this, I should probably be testing and releasing it since I apparently finished. LOL.
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 28 2009, 4:21 pm by Mini Moose 2707.
Lol, I'm reading the first page of this thread, and the I find it funny how back then Clans' said that nobody else played this map and now it's the only thing people play. XD
Assault's corsair and scourge use the same timer. Leads to "wait" blocks or corsair dying instantly.
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
Would it be too much of a hassle to redo some of the spell effects which affect a location so that they are in a mobile grid? Like, so you have nine wraiths which explode in a perfect square, rather than 12 wraiths which will occasionally be created completely outside of the location, thus not dying when the spell ends? I'm tired of using an area spell where the player is right outside of the location, and wraiths are created on top of them, but they're still unaffected. I believe this goes for assault 1, all the DM curses, disable is fine, due to already using a grid, A hallucination explosion would be nice for volt 3.
"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"
The only reason why it seems that the player should be affected but isn't is because of the way I used burrowed defilers as markers... these defilers are created everytime an AOE spell is casted. Unfortunately, they create below your unit. In that case then, when you're casting an AoE above someone, it may be ezier for them to run away to the bottom.
The Solution would be to redo all of the triggers of AoE spells and make it create defilers elsewhere and move it under the hero (I don't know if that works actually
).. but that'd require tons of work which I probly wouldn't do... And I doubt Moose'd either X.x...
I would, however, agree with the awkward placement of the old Bomber (which got removed, i think?).. since vultures are dropped, they get displaced, and then the location is centered on it.. and since I used firebats as the explosions, it displaces the explosion even more...
The rest of the spells all uses grids.. somewhat.
Moose, u ought to call the new tear gas "FlashBang" instead.. it makes more sense that way..
.
I'm sticking to TearGas, cause I like it immobilizing the cannons and stuff.
None.
Moose can u do me a favor. can u revamp 1.4m3 and make marines l4 not invincable. it would be extremely nice if u could
None.
Is there a release of M5? I saw it being played on B.net. was it leaked or something?
None.
I tested it with people on battle.net. It has not been officially released it because I introduced some new bugs.
I see a lot of people talking about changes, but let's talk about the game for once!
If anyone has played Super Smash Bros. Brawl, then most of you (hopefully) know about a tier list with the order of the "best" character and such.
So my question is, what would be the tier list for Temple Siege? I'm hoping for something to decide this by either PvP or maybe best team unit? I don't know, the units fit differently in these categories. Anyway, let's see what the pros say!
None.
If you are playing on a team full of noobs or people you aren't sure are good, you should pick either summoner, warrior, or mech. With these it is the easiest to solo with, and not have to rely on team work.
I made up a
chart of counters. I guess it got obscured by being in the
Temple Siege Strategy thread which nobody has been paying attention to anymore. I really expected more of a debate of the chart. Anyway, Mech and Warrior are pretty imba according to it. It would also appear that you generally don't want Volt or Assassin unless you have a good match-up set for them.
Warrior+Mech+DM/Assassin is my top team, in general. Substitute a Marine for the Warrior if it's rigged in whatever version (basically if it has +3). Depending on your opponents, this could use some tweaking, but with good teamwork you should be able to beat any team.
Worst character in my opinion is probably LM or Assault. Unless you're lame with reavers, LM is just a dumb character, and if you do lame with reavers, it's still a dumb character, it's just overpowered and ruins the game. It's too slow to have an impact. Assault is weak now, it's not a great damage character because Firebats do shitty damage against something moving, which is nearly always the case in Temple Siege, and it's not a great support character because it doesn't have many stuns anymore. It was only strong before because of its dropship. Its L3 is now a hit or miss, but I don't think that will help the character much as it's now almost entirely reliant on that spell for dealing damage.
Assassin and Volt are support characters, that's why you would not get a good result for them in a 1v1 chart. Their primary job is to stun, and they only deal decent damage to stunned opponents because of how slow they are. Maybe giving the LM a teleport+stun as its L2 would make it more interesting. It needs something besides reavers, to me. I hope that the new Firebat L2 will be sufficient enough for him to land some powerful hits. I just posted a team composition thread in the strategy topic that should be pretty insightful for a lot of you.
http://www.staredit.net/142882/In particular, I think that the mapmakers need to keep those designs in mind when adjusting characters. Whether it was intended or not, every character fits into one or more of those three roles. Changes to characters and new characters should maintain that.
None.
****************************
**** ****** ***** **********
*** TEMPLE SIEGE 1.4M5 ***
**** ****** ***** **********
****************************
:: GENERAL
- Assimilators now have 600 shields and 600 HP.
- Day/Night cycles now continue indefinitely. A trigger error previously limited to the number of human players in the game +2.
- Decreased the amount of Razings necessary for XP/cash gain.
Note: Will add extra bonus for Warp Gates next version.
- Moving to the Probe purchase beacon while you have a Probe now displays the list of buildings.
- Fixed some post-spell effect units that didn't die.
Note: There might still be more.
:: ARCHER
- L2 (Camp Builders) now summons two drones. Some building costs have been increased to compensate. An L2/L3 swap might be in order for future versions, so you are warned.
:: ASSASSIN
- Fixed string that said Decapitation's (L4) upgrade damage was +30 and not +40.
:: ASSAULT
- Renamed "Tear Gas" (L2) to "Flashbang".
- Flashbang (L2) is now a one-hit Disruption Web spell that drains 25 mana and SLOWS enemy heroes for 100 counts. (hint: combo)
- Firebomb (L3) now spawns two Infested Terrans. They are created BEFORE the firebats, so they will spawn in the center.
- Cost of Nuclear Missile reduced from 10m/100g to 10m/60g.
- Nuclear Ghost (L4) starting energy increased from 50% to 60%.
:: LIGHT MAGE
- Light of Binding (L3) Dragoons now have the range upgrade.
:: SPECIAL OPS
- Comsat Station is removed upon elimination. So is the Silo for Assault. That one isn't quite as important.
- Cost of Scanner Sweep reduced from 70 to 65.
- Moved Sniper Rifle to L3. The effect is the same, damage increased to 85 + 8.
- Moved Carpet Bomber to L4. Removed Mine Drone.
- L2 now summons (or recharges) a Science Vessel. It works like the Dark Mage's L1. Science Vessels have 200 max energy, but you can research to 250 for 30 minerals. (for EMP to rape Volt)
(Note: I just realized the energy upgrade also gives you more casts for spells. I might need to increase the cost.)
- L3 stuns are now centered on the Dropship rather than the Vulture when a Vulture is deployed. This should fix some "accuracy" problems caused by ground unit displacement.
- Colorization of strings for different spells are now consistent.
- Fixed Bug with Sniper Rifle where you would be stuck outside the arena and not moved back. "NO MAN GETS LEFT BEHIND".
:: WARRIOR
- Charge of Courage (L3) now destroys player summons of the other team.
:: VOLT
- P12 Scourge resulting from Volt's L1 in combination with other spells are now removed.
- Fixed bug(s) that could result in Scourges living far beyond the duration of L1's ending.
- Heavy trigger reorganization and consolidation. If we're lucky, nothing got broken.
http://www.staredit.net/?file=808
Okay, I'm finally going to release this.
Assault should be a bit better now and Special Ops should rape everything a bit less. There is, of course, massive work still to be done. This "should" be a bit more balanced for now.
Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 6 2009, 4:19 am by Mini Moose 2707.
Idea: The Hive and Lair both give added effects(like at like a mana fountain when nearby)
Also, I've grown to dislike firebomb. I just don't think it's a very good spell.
All in all, I'm thinking this version is tournament worthy. I think it's time we just say "fuck it" and have another one.
Mini Moose 2707
