Summoner is imba, just by existing.

Yay, yet another, summoner is imba post...

Yep. The only halfway decent counter is mech, which is generally OP. Mutant and warrior do OK against summoner.

Obv. this is a pro summoner.

>.>

Summoner is mech's biggest counter.

What? your putting Mech over Mutant as a counter against summoner? A mana ling with level 3 just needs to use level one at night and use level 3 to defend against lings. Summooner pretty much stays in the bench the whole game with mutant on the field.

Not bike mode's. Mech should be untouchable except at night with carefully placed burrows.

because something stays alive longer then most heros doesn't make it a counter against the hero that is trying to kill it. wtf.

Bike mode with basic micro kills lings like BAM. A mech would probably lose eventually due to summoner eventually getting past and temple killing, but bike mode can run around the map and cut summoner exp down a huge amount. When I think about it, mutant is probably better at containing summoner due to lvl1 night contains and lvl3 killing.

So mech and mutant are the closest to a summoner counter there is.

MEMEMEMEME, warrior, hydra, marine destroys that team. Just be wary of volt gimp, because he will try to gimp the marine with l2 .

@Shredder:

When u have over 1k TS matches under your belt lets talk. .

DMs L3 basically shuts down Medic. Only thing keeping him safe is if he camps at cannons whole game which means no mid battle full heal's or disables being thrown at your team.

Again? I thought we banned you twice.

If Mech has a counter it's probably Archer.

because i'm sure you do. I have been playing ts since 1.3, and i definitely have 1k matches... if only there was truly a way to test it.

As the mech to summoner counter, mech can easily counter summoner by shutting down every ling summoner has once he gets bike mode. In theory, yes, summoner should counter mech, but it rarely happens if mech harasses enough. Usually how mech dies to summoner is that mech is in a lane and summoner comes from both top and bottom, trapping him and allowing summoner the 20-some hits necessary to kill the mech in his bike mode. If mech transforms, then the summoner can easily chase him down and surround him.

The problem with chasing summoner down is two things.

If its day, he will run away and feed somewhere else at the same time.

If its night, he will burow and feed somewhere else at the same time.

That feels imba as i write it...

Warrior hydra marine vs summoner mech volt is iffy.

Once summoner has upgs and votl can even just land a l1 anyone will die.

L3 works even better.

sigh back to argueing again. Why does this always happen after some good changes. Starts with full heal and now its all over the place lol.

moose, yoshi progress on terrain? very interested at this point especially with the current talk

Mech is not imba, time to make all the lowlevels cry.

Volt DESTROYS mech, end of story.

Heres why.
1. Volt trains faster than mech 2x faster in fact, therefore gets his bread and butter skills faster than mech EVER could. Also he can afford to go HP, while if Mech HP's vs volt, hes just setting himself up to die.
2. Volt will generally never die to mech because of his ultimate. Its near impossible to die to mech with volt. At 200-225 mana, mech can and never and should not L4 you, if he does, L3->L4 punish him for being noob. Only time his l4 will kill you is if you are in tank range and dont have l4.
3. Only safe approach mech has vs volt is Double L3 which is generally so obvious its coming that its easy to dodge. You either just move back or use your ultimate.
4.Hp volt + l3 = gg mech. nuff said
5.Volt is faster than 2/3's of his of mechs forms. Vult is his best form, 1stun landed on vult mode and he dies. Usually use l1, or u want a guranteed hit use L2->l1->l3.
6.You are all gonna cry "BUT BUT BUT MECH HAS MANUAL!,HE WILL RAPE YOU!". Any good volt, should go this build, only volt build you need. 1minerals ->3 Hp-> 2mana-> L2 -> one mana -> L3 -> L4-> 5mana -> Hp/mana as u see fit. Mech 's DPS is garbage, only DPS move he has on you for dps is his l4, which you own. Let him manual you with his 0 mana while you pound on him in his vult mode, 3shotting him.
7.Mana volt is riskier but u get your bread and butter faster. Use at your own risk.
8.Mech cannot assault the base until volt is dead.
8.If Mech ever L4's you just hug him and cast L2 mitigates the damage significantly. Then proceed to combo him to death.
9.This build works vs hydra too, but its also 10x easier vs him since hes such a garbage farmer.

Problem with mech vs volt, is that ANY Spell that mech uses is putting him in a comprimising position sans L3. Though L3 is generally a waste anyways because if you are playing a competant volt you wont have INSANE ups to oneshot him with l3 immediately. And L4 sets you up for a combo. Staying in mech mode to lane will get you eliminated fast, vult is his only safe mode, still extremely risky. Staying in tank mode is a joke.

Hydra doesnt counter mech at all. Maybe early game thats it. All of hydras builds leave him extremely vulnerable, generally mana deficient or HP deficient, and hyrbrid slows him down considerably. His L3 is just huge feed for mech unless he has insane ups. L4 will generally never land. L1 is a joke. Only thing hydra has on mech is hes more versatile and can base rape WAY faster than mech ever could.

Summoner rapes mech, bike mode blah blah blah. No, mech dies to summoner always by mid game you take too much collateral damage to be micro lings effectively. Nor can he stop summoner raping his base, and if ever gets L4, he owns you. Or he can use his 3x lane feed to mass spawn you, if your BIKE MODE IS SUPER PRO TO OUTLAST 15 CLAW ATK LINGS!

Discuss. Cry.

If you want reps, I will post.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 23 2009, 9:39 pm by 2GunsUp.

It's funny how you just got totally ignored

A pro mech vs a pro summoner will never die. However, it will probably lose its base late game unless it has good base killers on its team. It should never be base killing personally as it should spend its time going around containing the lings feeding.

It doesn't matter that mech can rarely kill volt. Mech doesn't have to get close to volt, team mates can go kill volt. Volt doesn't counter mech because volt can't get close enough to hurt him.

@Zany

At about 300 mana its safe to start raping their base as volt. Mech has to come back and heal sometimes. Volt medic and DM are the THREE units you do not want in your base at all times. Summoner rapes mech, always. You arent containing 12 lings with 15+ ups and 15armor mid-late game without taking collateral, its not going to happen sorry. And the fact u said mech should run around the map containing lings in vult mode just proves you are in over your head. Chasing lings after like the first night is stupid, and summoner will be exping in another lane. Best bet is to rape his teamates then reaver, no chasing ghosts over the map. Not to mention u are missing out on precious exp. Besides LM and Summoner, whos going to hard counter volt? Volt destroys mech, so right mech will avoid him while hes inside your base waiting for you. GJ.

Everyone talks like its 1v1...unfortunately, its not.

@2GunsUp

Mech isnt supposed to approach volt. You have someone else, anyone else, stun/weaken him, and mech finishes him off.

Stop talking like its 1v1 and the island is about as big as middles base.

Forgot sin never want in base...

Marine counters volt...

A good mutant can take volt down mid-late game...

That MIGHT work with a rine or ling EARLY game to stop his feed but otherwise that's a stupidly noob thing to do and amazingly just about what every pub does. For one thing that only works early game when summoner has low mana. Secondly summoner can send lings to multiple places to train which means mech has to chase down all of them to effectively stop his laning. Thirdly, it's almost guaranteed that the ling will be able to get a wave before the mech kills the ling, once the ling dies replace it with another. Summoner won't be losing out on xp, just reserve lings for his army. And finally, mech has a bad early game relative to other heroes with his goliath mode. Summoner should be able to make an easy lead from this and therefore reducing his early game phase.