Few notes:

Anystunner besides bat, isnt safe from volts combo. Anyone who apporaches will eat L3 and then an L4. Mech will not even get close to killing L4 if he doesnt have at least 30 ups. Marine has never countered volt. HE CONTROLS him, but doesnt counter him directly whatsoever, since he cannot manual and volt will always escape with 120 to safety. Marine controls volt, godly, but never counters.

On a sidenote:

If anyone doubts my over 1k TS games/wins here is my proof:

Proof 1

proof2
finally:

Proof3

99% wins, some losses tho :C

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 23 2009, 11:51 pm by 2GunsUp.

*Looks at all the files that were copied + renamed in one sitting*

Hit me up on b.net pick anyone u see, i'll show it to you. No reason to lie about this. Im a vet. Goes for anyone. Pick anyone you see in those pics, i'll let u dl. Don't try tot discredit me, and blow me off without at least investigating or asking "ok guns, let me see some of those reps i want some proof". You can at least ask to see some of them before trying to discredit me.

Yeah but, what have you actually done.

I can play a bunch of games and win them and learn nothing.

Also, just because you ahve those replays doesnt mean you know everything about the mech/volt matchup.

Would you like to see some Mech + volt matchups? I got plenty in my replay stash. I really need some DT/Sum/Bat reps, i think its a godly combo, thats what i really wanna record. Already have a bunch stomping mechs [Legit mechs/TK mechs]

Just beacuse theyre played doesnt mean theyre played right.

EDIT: Getting on SC. Wont reply for a while prolly

Name some people who would.

People who can present valid info and prove a point on the matchup.

MEMEME760 isn't that what replays are for? Learn from past mistakes and losses, and to prove my strategies work? Sit and analyze what you did wrong, whats right, and get better from it. Also you didnt answer Val's question, name some people who would.

We're talking about 3v3. There's only 6 places in the map that you can feed. 3 will be taken by the summoners enemies, so he goes to the other 3. Mech can easily get to those three, especially at day, AND FEED! So summoner should be contained to get lowest exp, early and mid game, while mech should be 5th to 3rd in exp. If someone is simming too, in the long run he shouldn't lose out on much, whereas summoner is hobbled.

By late game, the teammates should be able to hit the summoners base, so summoner has time to feed but less chance of getting lings out due to probable base camp.

If it's a pro mech, it should be able to limit summoner to only exping at night. If you have rine or mutant on your team, it gets even less exp. The problem is no one ever does this effectively. If they did though, summoner is stuffed by mech, AND beaten at temple.

Few notes:

Teams centered around summoner generally let the other team cap all or 2 so he can feed very easyliy. running back and forth to chase a ling/lings behind your cap point is a waste of time. Second pro summoner teams let him feed all 3 lanes at night especially if u have guys who counter anti summoner picks. Bat and summoner is usually the bread and butter, the third guy is a floater but usually someone who can handle mass spawn ling/warrior/volt. DT/bat/summoner is a wildcard team but, valid choice. Its a hard base rape team. Bat covers all of summoners controllers/counters [Warrior/ling/rine]. Mech is trouble, but bat sets dt up for ez decap vs mech. Even mech fears DT at night. Not to mention if there is no detection or detection heros dead, DT can solo the temple for night with 10ups and shave off more than a third while summoner has 2 or 3 lanes to feed. Also something very subtle here is that summoner covers DT's crappy farming capabilities. Also bat covers all of DT's hard counters as well. And despite if the other team caps all points. DT and bat rape sims all night. Though my main point is pro summoner team will usually let the others cap, the other two will sim patrol and gank. Summoner will go behind ur caps to feed, chasing is a waste of time. Also any ling that spends the night chasing ghosts is probably nub, he needs to be out ganking not wasting mana to chase ghosts at night. And lets not forget nuke people. DT solo + nuke + summoner base rape. If one nuke is landed, and DT can solo temple its pretty much game.

Edit: You can tag out Volt for DT, if you want more PK capabilities. Decent defense raper with L4 and chain stunner and disabler.

Edit: Summoner only hard counter in hero form is SpecOps. Simply because marine can defend base from him and attack his own, and create spawn. Not to mention farm on par or better than summoner, worry free. Ling,warrior,and mech only control him, do not counter him at all nor shut him down. End Game summoner will just wear you down with suicide lings, not to mention if he has any hero that handles spawn well on his team (I.E Reavers), its over.

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Oct 24 2009, 4:19 am by 2GunsUp.

Noob mistake. Depends on hero matchup. You're basically telling me summoner is never able to feed in the same place as a warrior, assassin, assault, volt etc. Those heroes can't touch his lings.
Yes, because naturally mech is able to feed between his base and your spawn cap. Let's say the game magically let mech do this, why wouldn't summoner just keep two lings per a lane for an enemy captured gate. One behind it, close to base and only used when hero leaves the area and another behind their gate. I don't see how mech can be two places at once.
Invalid statement, refer to original post and previous comments.

What happened to the 3v3 games we were talking about. If you're going to post something this situational let me point out that Volt, Dark Mage, Medic are the best and essential heroes needed for temple sieging. Oh summoner heavily conters all 3 of them? Damn.

Mech vult is the only thing that can effectively kill a pro summoners lings, only due to the fact that he outspeeds them.

The basic reason summoner is imba is because he is an all reward no risk character.

The exact reason getting 20/20 rushed on other characters doesnt work is because spells/enemy heroes will kill you, and you will lose a life, hence, lose a life.

With summoner, you have speed, for one. And for two, if you get killed, assuming the actual summoner is in the base like he should be, you wont lose a life.

That seems to sum it all up...

2Guns is blatantly Maxx, I don't even need to have a long discussion with him this time to make it obvious.

Newsflash: your M3 "sitting in base until you have 400 mana" Volt strategy doesn't work on a real version where assims work.

Mech counters Volt until the Volt has 200 Mana and a ton of life, then the Mech just ignores him. In a lane, you get fucked early-mid game. Vulture micro then a 2zz and you're hit by tanks/mech and dead. Full damage to shields, one tank blast finishes his HP.

So yeah, good luck sitting in your base while I assim the entire map. They actually return minerals before 20 minutes, unlike M3. If you come out before you can combo L3/L4 together, you're not even remotely a threat without serious DPS help.

Yes, Mech is only countered by Archer early game. That's the only time a Mech should ever be countered; after he gets a Vulture he can just completely ignore anything that threatens him.

Summoner versus Mech will be an interesting matchup with the new L2, but I can literally micro a speed Vulture versus Zerglings with one hand. Throw in ensnare, and it might become way more balanced. =)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:24 pm by Decency.

I've been thinking this for around a day, not as sure this time but eh.
Yeah, I forgot about new ensnare. But that just makes the summoner MORE OP, and stops the mech having much of a chance anymore. TBH, lings would probably work best with either only ~6 lings, or only +1 ups, OR (perhapr best) a removal of one or both of the speed upgrades.

Few notes:

Wrong. Mech doesnt destroy volt. When volt has L3 with 120 mana, its over for mech. Then its just a waiting game for you to slip up and i combo you to death, plus any good volt should rush 3 hp. He has godly farming capabilites and his spells ensure if u get close you die. Then to top it off, you still have this insane idea that Volt is an offesnive hero, WHICH HE IS NOT. Get over it, he capitalizes off sloppy play and punishes you for it, like I did TWO TIMES. And you had RINE two times. And you MAP CONTROL two times. I never been beaten by mech as volt in a LONG time. Go ahead vulture micro me, and blah blah like u always tried before, and guess what i still destroy you. Yes go ahead and vulture micro against my 3HP while i steal your feed. L4 guarantees my survival. You talk all this strategy and non-sense here but on the field you get destroyed. Your only option is to double L3 me, thats it. You think im lying? Check the 2v3 rep thats all you tried to do to me all game because you knew if u got close you lost, you just inadvertantly proved my point. 3v1 rep i just str8 up clowned you.

You'll never give it up will you. Last time im addressing this, im here for strategy not flame.

Decency, when are you just gonna give it up. You are opening old wounds again. I beat you 3v1, that game u had your pal who was a RINE and a DM. And you had 28 ups, and you are still sore about it. Yes i have the replay and watched it today 28 ups vs my 2 hp volt/mana volt and you still lose. NO EXCUSE to lose with 28 UPS, MAP CONTROL, AND TWO OTHER ALLIES. Other game basically 2v3, and you had the map again and i still won, and you made excuses. I dont get points for beating you anymore, and in my defense in the 2v3 Your own ally said you were bad. It's not just your Mech thats lacking either, Dog and Iceman clowned your horribad DM, whats your excuse for that? Sims Again, They were base camping? There are others just like you all crying about how I beat them and they are sore, you are just in a long line of haters and Sore losers so take a number. Get over it Decency it doesnt matter play me MT, M3.3, M3.2, M3. I dont care. You will get stomped by Me, By Iceman, and by Dog, Any TS ver. Anytime, Anywhere. End of story.

NEWSFLASH FOR YOU: Stop whining, get a team, and man up and play me for a win instead of making excuses and getting upset about past losses on this forum. I never turn down a challenge and you now my name on b.net. There is a reason I'm champ: I got the mind of an old vet, and im not going back and forth with you anymore cause you are no threat. GGnore.

*This is the last time i'm addressing this guy about the situation hes 0-2 vs me. I'm not wasting my time on some random who's still mad he lost. I'm here to discuss strategy*

Summoner L2 snare means nothing in pro games, if hes running out and about hes most likely going to get owned, implementing that l2 on him wasnt a great idea. The other M8 changes i generally agree with. I dont know why you guys put summoner on godtier status hes strictly a mid-tier hero. Situational pick, and needs a team revolved around him, cant throw him on any team and expect results. L2 has pub stomp capabilities, but also its a waste because hes going to be pumping mana during the course of the fight, not out in field. Doesnt synergize well with him, maybe some applications with Ling for night time ganks, but others a strictly situation spell.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Oct 24 2009, 10:09 am by 2GunsUp.

First off, if you're here to talk strategy, why are you rubbing in some game in which you beat faz? You won, get over it.

Second, we never said mech destroys volt, we said mech is useful for early game, after which mech doesn't bother coming close to volt.

3rd. L2 snare plus some lings = dead hero. Doesn't matter if summoner dies, it can just stay at base once it's on 3rd life.
Summoner is top tier because mid/late game it does highest DPS, plus lings can trap most heroes almost as effectively as a stun. If it can't beat a hero, it just needs to kill the temple, which is easy enough late game. Again, assuming 3v3.

Wrong. He always brings it up, im tired of having to reiterate to him why he lost read the forum posts in the past hes still mad about it. Rubbing it in for beating FaZ-? Are you serious? I clearly stated "I get not points for beating you". Translation: Beating Faz- is no amazing feat.

Let me address something as well, you talk all this about how you want me to get beaten and blah blah, yet you never challenge me and i never see you play TS. Like i said, you can sit here and theorize, and talk strategy, Like faz- does but when its game time will YOU put up any stats?

Second, Summoner is not godtier because EVERYBODY has access to his universal weakness: Reavers. Generally everyone can farm pretty decently despite enemy/ally cap positions. Summoner doesnt have this luxury he is best at farming when his team has the LEAST cap points, thats when almost every hero can push him out the lane and his farm suffers. This scenario is for 3v3.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 24 2009, 10:26 am by 2GunsUp.

Reavers are epic feed for summoner team mates.

If you're not rubbing it in, why did you refer to it throughout most of your post, whereas faz didn't even bring it up this time?

And you never see me play TS because I don't play TS every day, and because when I do, I stay away from you and any games you're in, because I prefer not to play with trash talkers.

And this is where you are in the wrong Maxx:

You were banned. Not just your account, not just your IP, but you. You can have as many accounts, IPs, and proxies as you like, but it doesn't take long before you show who you really are. I was about to ask why you bother, but I understand why you do: You have a passion for TS, and are looking to improve it, hence you go to where such improvements are discussed and made.

Although this is admirable, you have been restricted from doing so here at SEN any longer, and I apologize to our members who have had to repeatedly deal with you and your accounts.