[quote=name:Jimroy]Of course it's easy. Anyways, assuming you make sure phantom can't auto-win via rushing with any of the 3 races, the next weakness of phantom is that phantom is too pointless with 4 or 3 people. Fix that, have anti-hack, and you got yourself a pretty perfect phantom. Sorry if I offered too many other suggestions. I suggest you make a rigged version where you get to be phantom every game and balance test your rushes that way.[/quote] No, your fine. Keep the suggestions coming! :D I just don't see that rushing because of a surplus of minerals/gas is that much of an advantage. Its again, part of the whole Phantom atmosphere. In Phantom you have to be ready for something such as someone rushing you.

Quote from Jimroy

Of course it's easy. Anyways, assuming you make sure phantom can't auto-win via rushing with any of the 3 races, the next weakness of phantom is that phantom is too pointless with 4 or 3 people. Fix that, have anti-hack, and you got yourself a pretty perfect phantom. Sorry if I offered too many other suggestions.

I suggest you make a rigged version where you get to be phantom every game and balance test your rushes that way.

No, your fine. Keep the suggestions coming! I just don't see that rushing because of a surplus of minerals/gas is that much of an advantage. Its again, part of the whole Phantom atmosphere. In Phantom you have to be ready for something such as someone rushing you.

That may be the case. My experience is that it is an advantage in some cases. My input is that you should test your hypothesis, that it is not an advantage, very aggressively. First of all, test zerg. In my experience winning via rushing straight up is pretty easy to the point where the phantom really should get less money. Like I said before, I'm not saying you should make rushing like this unfeasable or even "hard" to win. Just less than "easy." I'm not a good melee player. I can't win on pgtour for crap. But I can pick Zerg in a phantom map, build a pool looking completely normal, unally when it's half done, build all hatches/evos/den/lair/spires and crush 7 people, slowing someone down with some immediate lings (built in case of worker rush), crushing a coulple with ridiculous amounts of hydras, then the rest with muta/whatever. Now if they were ALL better than me at melee, maybe not. But in a public game (which, since you are dealing with hacks at all), that's never going to happen. Now I'm not saying I shouldn't be able to win this way, just that a better map would make it at least slightly harder SOMEHOW. That's my input, based on my hundreds of pub phantom games i've played. Now if you still want to hear further suggestions, I will save them for a time when an overpowered zerg phantom is less possible in your map than in omniscourge's versions. There are a number of ways to tweak the strength of the phantom. Giving them less of a money advantage is only one of them. Another would be to choose the phantom slightly later, so that each player has a little more time to get established. no doubt there are more ways. Obviously stopping hack would be a huge improvement to pub phantom games. Two other obvious weaknesses, i reiterate, to common maps for pub phantom games, are: 1. -rush is too easy, even in an 8 player game, perhaps at least with certain race(s) def zerg, poss pto. not terr imo but i havent concluded this one way or the other. not saying it has to be nerfed, only adjusted. even omniscourge acknowledged this obvious known fact, as in 2.4 he lowered phantom res from the previous version. also in phantom bgh 3.0 and other phantoms not made by omni, this problem is resolved by choosing phantom later in the game. 2. -in theory a game should still be good if there's only 3 or 4 players, but phantom is simply too strong in such games. phant neds to be weaker in small games to make the map more complete. besides hacking, those are the big targets for improvement in the typical public phantom game. i share this with you because you seem to have the intelligence to understand this and the skill and motivation to do something about it. for purely selfish reasons, i simply want to be able to play a better phantom game.

That may be the case. My experience is that it is an advantage in some cases. My input is that you should test your hypothesis, that it is not an advantage, very aggressively. First of all, test zerg. In my experience winning via rushing straight up is pretty easy to the point where the phantom really should get less money. Like I said before, I'm not saying you should make rushing like this unfeasable or even "hard" to win. Just less than "easy."

I'm not a good melee player. I can't win on pgtour for crap. But I can pick Zerg in a phantom map, build a pool looking completely normal, unally when it's half done, build all hatches/evos/den/lair/spires and crush 7 people, slowing someone down with some immediate lings (built in case of worker rush), crushing a coulple with ridiculous amounts of hydras, then the rest with muta/whatever. Now if they were ALL better than me at melee, maybe not. But in a public game (which, since you are dealing with hacks at all), that's never going to happen. Now I'm not saying I shouldn't be able to win this way, just that a better map would make it at least slightly harder SOMEHOW. That's my input, based on my hundreds of pub phantom games i've played.

Now if you still want to hear further suggestions, I will save them for a time when an overpowered zerg phantom is less possible in your map than in omniscourge's versions. There are a number of ways to tweak the strength of the phantom. Giving them less of a money advantage is only one of them. Another would be to choose the phantom slightly later, so that each player has a little more time to get established. no doubt there are more ways.

Obviously stopping hack would be a huge improvement to pub phantom games. Two other obvious weaknesses, i reiterate, to common maps for pub phantom games, are:
1. -rush is too easy, even in an 8 player game, perhaps at least with certain race(s) def zerg, poss pto. not terr imo but i havent concluded this one way or the other. not saying it has to be nerfed, only adjusted. even omniscourge acknowledged this obvious known fact, as in 2.4 he lowered phantom res from the previous version. also in phantom bgh 3.0 and other phantoms not made by omni, this problem is resolved by choosing phantom later in the game.
2. -in theory a game should still be good if there's only 3 or 4 players, but phantom is simply too strong in such games. phant neds to be weaker in small games to make the map more complete.

besides hacking, those are the big targets for improvement in the typical public phantom game. i share this with you because you seem to have the intelligence to understand this and the skill and motivation to do something about it. for purely selfish reasons, i simply want to be able to play a better phantom game.

Does it tell the hacker that they are being kicked for hacking before doing it? I haven't read into your methods, but that would be a good thing, if possible. This way they will be discouraged to use hacks as they know this is the reason why. Thus less likely for the Phantom to be a hacker.

Does it tell the hacker that they are being kicked for hacking before doing it?

I haven't read into your methods, but that would be a good thing, if possible. This way they will be discouraged to use hacks as they know this is the reason why. Thus less likely for the Phantom to be a hacker.

So Bronto, have you managed to find a way to stop Drone Float? :P I will hide on an island while the other players don't have air! Bwahahahahah!

So Bronto, have you managed to find a way to stop Drone Float? I will hide on an island while the other players don't have air! Bwahahahahah!

[quote=name:Kaias]Does it tell the hacker that they are being kicked for hacking before doing it? I haven't read into your methods, but that would be a good thing, if possible. This way they will be discouraged to use hacks as they know this is the reason why. Thus less likely for the Phantom to be a hacker.[/quote] It boots them. It tells all of the players that a hacker using (what hack the used) was banned! [quote=name:Falkoner]So Bronto, have you managed to find a way to stop Drone Float? :P I will hide on an island while the other players don't have air! Bwahahahahah![/quote] Screw the drone float... I don't care if I can prevent this or not. If someone was to start a game, then all of the sudden have a zerg drone on a high cliff without a stair case to enter up (corners of PhantomHackles) then it would be suspicious...

Quote from Kaias

Does it tell the hacker that they are being kicked for hacking before doing it?

I haven't read into your methods, but that would be a good thing, if possible. This way they will be discouraged to use hacks as they know this is the reason why. Thus less likely for the Phantom to be a hacker.

It boots them. It tells all of the players that a hacker using (what hack the used) was banned!

Quote from Falkoner

So Bronto, have you managed to find a way to stop Drone Float? I will hide on an island while the other players don't have air! Bwahahahahah!

Screw the drone float... I don't care if I can prevent this or not. If someone was to start a game, then all of the sudden have a zerg drone on a high cliff without a stair case to enter up (corners of PhantomHackles) then it would be suspicious...

Yeah, but they can't ban me next game 'cuz I spoof a new name :P

Yeah, but they can't ban me next game 'cuz I spoof a new name

[quote=name:Falkoner]Yeah, but they can't ban me next game 'cuz I spoof a new name :P[/quote] And if the host isn't a retard he will notice that you don't download the map, because you have already downloaded it, and will ban you, if he doesn't notice you weren't there last game... Oh well.

Quote from Falkoner

Yeah, but they can't ban me next game 'cuz I spoof a new name

And if the host isn't a retard he will notice that you don't download the map, because you have already downloaded it, and will ban you, if he doesn't notice you weren't there last game... Oh well.

You could detect excessive use of the order... but I don't think it would be easy to read the current order.

You could detect excessive use of the order... but I don't think it would be easy to read the current order.

[quote=name:FaRTy1billion]You could detect excessive use of the order... but I don't think it would be easy to read the current order.[/quote] I'm not too worried about it. I shall wait until IP fixes the map upload, because I don't want my map to look like shit here. You all will just have to wait. :bleh:

Quote from O)FaRTy1billion[MM]

You could detect excessive use of the order... but I don't think it would be easy to read the current order.

I'm not too worried about it. I shall wait until IP fixes the map upload, because I don't want my map to look like shit here. You all will just have to wait.