THIS. I'm in Washington (state, not District of Columbia), and it seems to me that most of SeN is east of here, meaning I would have to get on waayyyy earlier than everyone else to make it to a map night. If we just designate Friday as map day and don't have a start and end time set out, maybe I (along with everyone else in a non-EST timezone) could make it on a bit more. Map Day: As long as you fuckin' want. Just remember to pee.

Yes I agree a strong force of law is always needed for respect. Some of that fell out of the transition from Maplantis. But that's understandable.

Except I'm making a set of specific proposals rather than just toying with the issue in general. It's occurred to me there's two things amiss: General mutual respect (that's both user and staff's job), and the option of reasoning to solve problems. Most senior members at least aren't idiots. That's not to say they can't get out of line, like everyone else, but I'm seeing more action against the out of line parts lately and not quite as much to address the why behind such instances. Hopefully I won't have to cite examples of this, and it's probably not my place to do so. I don't really care about the stuff that's already happened, anyway.

I just don't think we all need to be treated like idiots here. I'm asking if open, honest reasoning is an option for problems in the future. That's all.

Post has been edited 7 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 2:05 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Ya, just remind me when I'm there. Map/mod night ends and then I start listening to bodily calls... "oshit!"

Yay, tuxlar used my image. Unfortunately it was made for old SEN, so it looks crap here.

I think a specific time works better because everyone who wants to attend is forced into a window. If it were an all day thing, it would just be like any other day with people randomly coming on to see if others are online. You could extend the ranges of time...

Mehbeh 1700 - 0200 EST?

Okay, I will.

Why do you bring this up in such a matter? I interpret this as a flame towards Devilesk. You defend your map as better than mine because you spent nine months working on it, which is understandable. Your argument is legitimite until it ends and you admit that you had never played my map. Maybe the time spent makes it better, maybe? The fact that you made your map makes it better? I don't know, and it isn't the point.
The point is that you're telling us to grow up, while you yourself are clearly not even over this one small incident. It certainly is easier to tell us what to do, rather than doing it yourself. Plus, you get the advantage of taking a moral high ground and staying on a high horse. Then, people dislike you and attack you for things like this, you get to look squeaky clean on your high horse, proclaiming you don't wish to create drama. Perhaps you do have good intentions, and your method of implementing these changes is poorly planned out. Or, you need to stop expecting other people to start first and lead by example.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 5:24 am by Mini Moose 2707.

No I wasn't comparing or defending my map against yours. At least I was trying not to. Again, I hadn't even gotten to play it yet. I did overreact. But seriously. 9 months. I challenge ANY of you to spend 9 months making something, and then let me take the opportunity to squeeze off a deuce all over it.

As for the high horse. Rather than change my avatar again, I'm just going to say it plainly: I WILL NOT GET OFF MY FUCKING HIGH HORSE, BITCHES! AHAHAHAHAH!!!!1




Actually, I just like to solve problems that way. See, theoretically, if everyone were able to use reason, then even an attitude like mine shouldn't matter, because we'd naturally identify and address problems as they turn up rather than play mind games or pick sides. Right?

Again, picking sides and all that crap has NEVER been my intent or purpose here. You should know me better than that by now, moose. Though I do have the kind of ego that can start a World War. I won't lie about that.

Yeah, and that's the kind of attitude that's clearly causing you problems. Regardless of your intentions, the unintended consequences are still there. Why should we listen to you when you're clearly elevating yourself to the moral high for further exploitation of such a position? You've come in here trying (or... not trying, as you claim) to fix problems, only to wind up exacerbating them by not realizing the consequences of your actions. The justification is that you were trying to lead this crusade for change and that you had no intentions of causing drama, yet you do anyway... and that's just not right.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 5:41 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Well notice the topic title. But unless I'm misreading the latest batch of "I quits", I DO think there's a problem here. And I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the respect issue (at the least). And I know I've had some problems regarding that crap myself, too, so I figured I'd generalize it into a message that's useful for everyone rather than just myself. That's not "high horsing", by the way. That's using some sense and reasoning.


Now, you mention "unintended" consequences. But as I see it, those are just parts where information isn't getting through correctly. I often assume people are on the same page as I am, but then discover later that we're not. Example would be that mafia game (ugh!). In a trust-based game where players violate that principal with stuff like account swaps, Anonymoose lulz, posting roles publicly, etc., the minute the trust element breaks down, the game is basically over. Dapper got mad at me running my mouth off while the game was still "running", even though from my perspective it was plain as day that it had long since been shot in the arse the minute I confirmed Anonymoose had succeeded in being started.

Bet you fuckers never thought to try to actually listen to me for change, did you? Oh well.


At this point, I don't care about crap like that. What's done is done. I've learned my lesson about trying to "force" reason. I just want to make a fucking Alcohol map to have some fun doing what I actually enjoy doing here: Making maps. gg.

That's your interpretation of what it is. That's what you tried to do.

Have you considered the possibility that is your fault as the speaker, rather than ours as the listeners?

Apparently, I have faulty reasoning skills. But, that's not what you meant to say, right?

The champion of reason, the man who calls us all "fuckers". But, we're probably just not understanding you correctly.

Well, if you agree to my proposal to reason it, then we can get to work on that interpretation stuff. That's a start.

I have. Don't force reason. That's what I've learned. I'm used to dealing with people who also solve problems this way, so I tend to do that a lot.

You think I'm wrong? Let's get to work on that too. That's the whole purpose of this thread, after all.

[/quote]
Did you really need to add on this part? C'mon Moose. You know how I'm feeling about shit like that here.

Yes. The blatancy of this hypocrisy is apalling.

Even I have limits to my patience, for god's sake. You think I can use reason forever?

You've suggested that you're on the same level as us... you're starting to get it. Likewise, you shouldn't be telling us to strive for that ideal. I finally feel we're on the same page.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 6:29 am by Mini Moose 2707.

But my frustration is a consequence of string of failures that remain unresolved and stand in the position of potentially never finding resolution. Stuff like that mafia bs. Not just an isolated instance or two. And that's the part that has exceeded my comprehension for the longest time. That's where my frustration comes from.

I mean, if reasoning is the "correct" way to solve problems, HOW do people think that getting away with thinking and acting otherwise is correct? Well I happen to have learned that lesson too. It's called life. People do that shit. We're not robots.


But see, knowingly doing that when the option exists not to is what I believe to be the real crime. That's the part where people and their problems are unnecessarily kept hidden in the dark to fester and grow until they explode out in the open. And that's where threads like these come in. We're not fucking animals here trying to score survival points off one another (at least not on SEN... I hope ). We can do better than that, right?

Some would say they're both crimes. Others would say that one being lesser than the other does not justify it.

You keep bringing up mafia (still hung up on that), where this is exactly what you did. Stop trying to make it everyone's problem. I want you to take responsibility instead of saying it's okay because you never intended to do it. I'm not saying to beat yourself up over it. I agree with your "what's done is done" view. But to push the responsibility away... isn't working.

Can we do better? I don't know. Your direct control only lies over what you do.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 6:45 am by Mini Moose 2707.

I'm not pushing responsibility away by addressing what happened directly. In fact, unless reasoning isn't an option, isn't that how I'm supposed to take responsibility?

Then my choice is to start at least by dropping the shit that's already happened and looking ahead.

Like by kicking your arse at that Alcohol map contest, for instance.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 6:53 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

So be it, you are bound to it. The next time you open an old wound, whine about Maplantis Mafia 6, how Anonymoose ruined the game, or how Dapperdan started it forty-seven years ago, or how Devilesk had an opinion you disagreed with regarding your map, you're catching hell.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 6:55 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Oh come now. I don't whine.


I GET EVEN!

Yeah, you just have to learn when getting even just isn't worth it... or you just can't. Because then you start to look silly and blame us for the situation.

Getting even. That's what letting go of the past is about, right?

That was a joke.


As long as reason is an option and we can be respectful here, I don't care about anything else.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 16 2008, 9:43 am by Tuxedo-Templar.