@Tank 7
I agree they are alot of mindless mass maps... I've played a few good ones though with a hero and spells.

@Tuxlar
When you feel your satisfied with your map i recommend you post your map on nibbits just to get it out there.

It does feel more tactical to have less players but then if people get frustrated they usually leave that's why i like having more people. Look at alot of the successful maps. Desert strike, Diplo infi, Heavens defense; Cat n mouse and undead are great examples compared this genre. Even though its alittle different worms is pretty good too... http://sc.nibbits.com/maps/project/73013/worms-183

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 6 2011, 8:03 pm by Tempz.

Not really interested in changing the nature of the map for any reason. I'm simply going to improve it for what it is to see what comes of it.


Anyway, I'm going to add munchies for the Hunter to get attack upgrades. They take time to eat, and the prey could optionally make a compound to remove them. Might make the Hunter's role a bit less boring.

@Tuxlar
Fair enough as there can been popular tactical maps such as spellsword.

I'm ignoring everything tempz says, I'd recommend the same ;D

I need to give this game a try this weekend. Hit me up and we'll play some, tux?

I'll try.

Going to hold off on adding significant new features for v1.2 and instead try some improvements to existing elements, such as making the Hunter's 'Attune' ability automatic whenever they become still (toggleable). "Hunter munchies" will be added later, if at all.

Less is more.

What, exactly, does Attune do? It didn't do anything for me except drain my energy (Gas) so I never ended up using it.

Also, will you lower the cost of Corruption to 45 or 40? It's current cost of 50 is a little... much.

It helps locate the prey if it's nearby and it's moving by pinging on his current location.

Great map by the way, Tux!

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

Well then they shouldnt call it mass

v1.2 changelog:

1. Hunter's Creep -> Sunken morph reduced to 35 gas w/ vision retained.
   
2. Prey's item dropping improved. Items dropped by type rather than all at once.
   
3. Prey's item pickup now works by distance to item.
   
4. Hunter's Attune is now toggled to activate automatically.
   
5. Hunter's Attune now indicates if the Prey is too far away to sense.
   
6. Prey can now locate any previously-spotted compounds and activators with an option.
   
7. Hunter now receives feedback on Prey's sanity status.
   
8. Hunter gets indication of successful Cry use.
   
9. Clarified Prey's objective.
   
10. Various fixes & tweaks.
    

Download v1.2b
Triggers (trigedit)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 11 2011, 1:41 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

And after much additional playtesting...

v1.2c changelog:

1. Reduced cost of Hunter's creep colony to 35 gas.
   
2. Removed one of the two hidden Gate Switches (lurker).
   
3. Increase Door Hinge HP from 60 to 80.
   
4. Increased quantity of Compound Activators from 12 to 14.
   
5. Various balance tweaks and fixes.
   

Download v1.2c
Triggers available by request.

v1.3b changelog:

1. Out-of-range sounds are now heard, but not pinpointed.
   
2. Renamed 'compounds' to 'ingredients'.
   
3. Increased quantity of Ingredient Activators (scourges) from 12 to 14.
   
4. Clarified gameplay goals for both players.
   
5. Clarified options for both players.
   
6. Lube is now a Queen instead of Overlord (less accidental drops).
   
7. Added context tips about various environmental objects (anti-derping measure).
   
8. Added better instructions for ingredient mixing+use (another anti-derping measure).
   
9. Added sounds for destroying things, among other aural tweaks.
   
10. Hunter's Attune is now toggled on by default.
    
11. Observer-only player now hears sounds and can see Prey's sanity/Hunter's mana.
    
12. Hunter's mana charges a bit slower.
    
13. Prey's sanity drains a bit slower.
    
14. Hunter's Cry lowered from 15 to 10 sanity loss for Prey.
    
15. Various other tweaks and fixes.

Download v1.3b
Trigedit (commented) triggers available by request.



This'll be the last version for a while. Enjoy.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 17 2011, 3:28 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

The fact that the Lube is now a Queen is really nice, makes for smoother, less technical gameplay and its more just about the Hunt. Balance has come a long way in this version too and I really praise this map. The map obstacles and item placements are randomized and gives alot of replayability. Also the long range non-pin pointed sounds really help add atmosphere as well as making the game less random, because you know you have to move far as hunter if out of range.

Glad you like it. If I get some free time and boredom back I might do a new version. A few things I want to add/change:

1. Change the Hunter's Attune ability to indicate only proximity distance (as opposed to movement pings). Skilled players are a wee too effective at stalking with the Hunter in its current form, methinks.
   
2. Improve aural ambiance between Prey and Hunter; Prey now hears evil noises based on Hunter's proximity, when being chased, etc.
   
3. Hunter can place Nydus Canals.
   
4. Instead of a "solidifier" for hiding spots (which no one ever uses), Prey can now craft sticky traps for the Hunter (detectible only by Attune, and by proximity only).
   
5. Prey's item pickup system will be revised:
   1. Items are picked up automatically by contact (except rocks, which are now 'pushed').
      
   2. Items are dropped only by stim running or by picking up new items (drops oldest first).
      
   3. Mixing options are now selectable. 'Dropping' items to mix them is old hat.
      
6. Alternate way to uncover escape switch: Hit all levers placed randomly around the map.
   
7. Additional spectator slot(s) may be added, with options to adjust perspective viewing.
   

For science.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 31 2011, 7:59 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

Somewhat true. I suggest that you "compromise" on this though, because this is a very BIG nerf to the Hunter if you ask me. I would suggest make it give proximity by default if the Prey is merely walking around or standing still, but ping if an action is done by the Prey such as pick-up/drop/mix items, and/or open/close door.

Sexy

Sexy

Sexy

Nooooooooooooo picking up by contact and automatically dropping oldest is terrible, it will make you drop things unintentionally and annoy the hell out of you.
Your idea of shooting the item was much more sane. It would just toggle between picked-up and dropped when you killed it. To enforce the max 3 perhaps
drop all items if the Prey player gets a 4th so that they'll remember to keep it at 3 or below. Maybe this specific idea I gave you is not right, but I swear automatically picking-up and dropping is bad news.

Agree sometimes its a burden to have to move away just to avoid a mix when making room for Key or Sci Ves.

This might be too easy compared to science vessel, a good game involves almost a "full map exploration" in the process of getting lube and key, THEN you get sci ves, and its like 1.5 to 2.0 full map explorations in a really epic game. This is neat and worth testing/trying since its probably not too super hard to trigger this part but I would be concerned and prepared to abort or alter this part of the map's plan.

Yesssss although having atleast 1 was the critical thing I think

I'd say it's more like a rebalance to bring the Hunter into what he is supposed to be, a Hunter tracking his prey, not a homing missile bearing down on preset coordinates. This could be made to have various levels of proximity giving different messages, so you could figure out if you're getting closer or not while running around. I'd also say it should work regardless of if the Prey is moving or not, giving the Prey more motivation to explore around instead of just hiding constantly, although Attune still shouldn't pick anything up while the Prey is inside a bunker.

No change should be considered by itself either, and taking some of the other changes being mentioned into account, the Hunter certainly isn't going to be underpowered by any means.

I would not be saddened in the least if there was not a single instance of pinging to indicate where the Prey was, outside of maybe the rusty door opening/closing pinging the location of the door itself (since that can be, and is supposed to be, avoided, and the ping itself can be used to trick the Hunter into moving the way the Prey wants him to move).

I'd rather see the solidifiers replaced with something else and explosives replaced with sticky traps, or maybe the explosives used on the Hunter simply stunning him or something. The Hunter shouldn't ever have to worry about randomly dying, he should be focused on attempting to locate

I think creep/sunkens should only give vision while the Hunter is standing beside them, like how the bunker gives the Prey vision while he's inside. He can still upgrade a creep to sunken while accessing it since he'll be controlling it, and it'll still attack the rest of the time since some allied computer will have control of it.

I'd also like to see some sort of inventory system which differentiates between ingredients and mixtures, where you have a certain ingredient limit (4) and a certain mixture limit (3). The system would ideally allow you to select which of the 3 mixtures you'd like to use, as well as which ingredients you want to mix or drop at any time you wish to do so. (Edit: To clarify, the mixtures and ingredients would still have some impact on one another, such as having a full inventory of mixtures means you can't hold any ingredients. I think an ideal system would likely be one in which you have 3 inventory slots, and each slot can hold either ingredients or a single mixture, and your total inventory can hold 4 ingredients, including activators, something like that).

Can't wait for the next version to be released, I'll be looking forward to it

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 1 2012, 9:43 pm by Azrael.Wrath.

Yes I have used rusty door deliberately sometimes. I would be very sad if the rusty door ping was taken away.

Okay heres an idea, for Attune, if the Prey is within the Attune's effective range, the hunter should hear sounds to know exactly whats going on - like even if a regular non-rusty door is opened or closed, or if items are mixed, or even a lock/rubble dying. That way its not a ping but the Hunter, if they remember where stuff is, can make an educated guess. This would have the nice effect of giving the Hunter player some memory work kind of like Prey had to remember where compounds and activators were back in the day of early versions. Perhaps taking it a step further the Hunter would now need similar buttons in his shuttle for "hmm where did I see a Lock" etc. For some reason I feel that Lube being used to remove Rust should be silent, but making the lube out of compounds should not thats mixing.

The Hunter being able to differentiate between the different sounds he's hearing would be a good idea, I'd agree that it should be like that instead of having multiple layers of proximity. Either the Prey is close enough to hear or he isn't, but you know exactly what he's doing when he is. If this were to include some form of proximity differences, I'd suggest that different actions be heard within a different range (like needing to be closer to hear mixing than you do to hear footsteps). Not sure this would be necessary though.

At any rate, if the Hunter is close enough and is concentrating, I don't think it's an issue for him to have a general idea of what the Prey is doing. As stated by Tank, he could use it to figure out the location of the Prey by knowing where the various components are ahead of time, introducing another layer of gameplay.

Played today was kewl. Like I said though you should simplfy things by making MOVE SHUTTLE like an interact button, used to pickup/drop/and open doors. Only when there are no doors or pickups nearby does moving it show the recipe menu. This would be x10 more intuitive.

I don't really like the switch locator thing either, because once the hunter finds them he can easily sunk them up and guard them. Should make it something like you need to collect X pieces of something (lets say, 5) and there are something like 7 or 8 pieces randomly on the map. Once all 5 are collected the gate is automatically opened.

Should include randomized tips for noobs.

Not sure if you've toyed with the option of recipe respawns. What it does is essentially gives the Prey a time-limit to finish the game. One has to constantly use recipes to explore behind rubble and repair sanity (and heal, if necessary). If recipes respawn the game has the potential to last much longer, and this would discourage Hunter 'camping' as well (cough Azrael).

The solidifier for bunkers would be a far more alluring option for the Hunter if it regened health for ALL bunkers, not just one.

Good luck.

EDIT: For a 'lore' explanation for the collecting of the 5 things. Just rename the Science Vessel as "Power Generator". You just have to find at least 5 and turn them on, and there are 7/8 in total. (Numbers can be modified of course.)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 1 2012, 8:38 pm by Oh_Man.

I like all these ideas. After a bit of thought, here's what I might do for v2:

1. Modify Attune to give distance indication of 'sounds' (including quiet ones like footsteps, non-rusty doors, etc., but only at a closer range).
   
2. As suggested, creep and sunken colonies are now computer-owned while hunter isn't near.
   
3. Hunter can now make spore colonies that attack the prey's sanity (as opposed to health, like the sunken). Can also be used for removing ingredients and items nearby.
   
4. Any creep, sunken, or spore that dies alerts the hunter.
   
5. Instead of dropping items automatically, prey must shoot them to be dropped. Otherwise, pickup is still automatic (as described earlier).
   
6. Available mixes will now be browse-able and selectable, also as mentioned.
   
7. Moving the shuttle will now be the prey's way to toggle doors, 'push' rocks, and activate levers (see below).
   
8. Prey's inventory increased to 5 slots.
   
9. Four "Manual Override" levers will exist around the map.
   1. They will all be rusted and will consume a Lube mixture to be opened (or else require the prey to spend time shooting them/re-attempting to trigger them repeatedly).
      
   2. Each one activated peels a layer from the exit gate. There are 4 gate layers and 4 levers.
      
   3. Prey can also use explosives to remove individual gate layers.
10. More compounds will exist around the map.
    
11. Locked doors now consume individual keys. Multiple keys may be found on the map.
    
12. Gate Switch Locator may or may not be removed completely.
    

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 1 2012, 10:23 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.