Firebat with nothing but damage and health ups is OP.

I've seen too many people do it, and it pisses me off to no end.

Well Idk how it happened but I lost track of dropship and then it became invincible when I tried to summon it because it apparently was already in play.

here is the replay hope it helps ( bug is at end of game when I killer_sss{blue} am only one left alive besides oj)

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I wanted to do more, I really did. Unfortunately, I've been going through some things IRL and didn't have the time and motivation necessary. I apologize if you guys feel let down, but please understand I will not put a map before myself.

http://www.staredit.net/files/808/

May i suggest we put a manual rule in place for chaining of Spec Ops l3, and the use of it to avoid stuff like the effect of DMs l4?

This limits the use of the spell too much. You shouldn't stop a person from using their spell to the best of its abilities. A cooldown would have been the best solution, but it's too late, I guess.

Chaining acts like a cooldown.

Also, using your l3 to prevent broods from spawning in DMs l4 is definetly an OP ability.

Very, Very, much so. It makes DM effectively useless against Spec Ops and Volt's l1 & l3 useless.

As of now, it appears that spawn rushing is the best way to win, given a team selected of fbat, someone with long range(not medic) and someone with a stun.(not warrior)

They effectively shut EVERYTHING down, and can beat you in less then five minuites.

There is no counter as long as they get these heroes, hence it is op and should be nerfed, no?

If my cd key wasnt muted, damn.

EDIT: Due to the spawn pathing of units from tops bottom into middle, the game is currently imbalanced for bottom team in an all out spawn rush.

EDIT#2: I understand that some of you will probably think upon reading this that i think its unbeatable. I dont.

You have to expect it coming to beat it though, as the EXP you gain from their push, assuming you have three competent characters that arent fbat alala alala. (range, damage.) You MUST do it yourself to have ANY chance. Also, if you are on top team and they make it past middle, your screwed as now only 2/3 of your spawn is defending, and that isnt enough.

It requires all three of you guys to go out of your way to defend against it, its decided heavily by the team your on, and if either team isnt ready/isnt doing it, they will lose.

(NOTE: Remember how it was beaten last time, by a mech spamming l1 from a high spot to gain exp, and eventually winning because he could defend against all of it? This is impossible in current terrain, there being no high ground near a choke point in middle. This is impossible always from tops perspective, due to not having the men required to defend once bottom is past middle. Part of the fact that makes this impossible is you gain exp for your teams kills, and the exp gained by the headlong start is well over enough to keep you going into the end.)

Moose, if you dont wanna change the map to fit it, atleast ban doing it or put some restrictions.

OR someone could prove me wrong, but nobody seems willing to go against me on any of my points (this is how it seems from summoner op post), so unless im right..?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 2 2010, 6:46 pm by MEMEME670.

I guess this wasn't an great example but Since our recent match I think we have more proof that this isn't balanced.

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While we're making the case against spawn level rush, add this to the grievances.

Granted, medusawurm's (Light Mage) elimination before the spawn rush was a major factor, and CAFG (Volt) dying was a turning point, it wasn't too good for me. I (Special Ops) survived and managed to use my massive upgrades to pull off an elimination and some kills, but that and L4 wasn't enough and the Temple died. We did see the spawn rush coming, but we could only do so much.

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You plan on changing this anytime soon?

EDIT: This also turns TS into a game of matchup and not fun. There is only certain things you can do against this strat, it narrows the game down a TON and takes a lot of the fun out. I vote we just ban upging spawn to rines before zlings would have come naturally. This allows you to still 'spawnrush' against an unprepared team, who, assuming your team was ready and knew what to do, could win. It also allows teams who dont want to base their team around the fact that a spawn rush may occur to have viability.

(why is it when i lose to some strat its pretty much considered op? That time i dropped doesnt count XD.)

Every tournament we get another breakthrough in balance(aside from the first one). We learned 11+3 spec ops is broken. Then we learned M3 sim rate made medic and splashers broken. This time we learned that spawn rushing, while mostly beatable, is what everyone and their grandma is doing in ts now.

I recommend u make spawn upgrading cost 5 or 6. I wouldn't mind just junking it all together too. I say replace it with "Increase opponent spawn +1(3)"

Just as abusable. Either juke it, or make it so you arent allowed to do it before zlings spawn, and can only do it one per day/night cycle.

EDIT: Why is everyone ignoring my summoner post? Say something...

If I were rebuilding TS from the ground up, I would rip out Summoner and Light Mage completely.

But that alters fundamentals of TS so much that I know I would never hear the end of that.

SCII = TSII?

This allows you to do whatever you want and anybody who complains gets m3.4 and stuff shoved in thier face.

http://templesiege.proboards.com/

New TS forum. Needs a TS banner

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 3 2010, 2:05 am by zany_001.

That is if he manages to make it before *gasp* DotA comes out on SCII

I've been bitching about spawns for a year, if not longer, but you just dismiss it because who am I to challenge your opinion? I bitched about Medic L4 in literally my first TS post here. November '08? I bitched about Marine +3 in literally my second TS post here. Evidently I wasted my time if it takes a tournament to make any drastic gameplay changes.

All I get is something like this:
And yet, if you look back: every single balance change I suggested in my two posts that you replied to has been implemented, except for fixing allied spawn killing, which I still think is just the mapmakers being lazy.

I've said give LM a teleport and give Summoner reasons to leave base for quite a while, too. -.- That standardizes them.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 3 2010, 2:32 am by FaZ-.

In SC2, it'll be simple enough to make summons have to remain near the summy. BTW TS forums on hold, I may have found a better alternative.

I've tuned you out long ago faz. "I said this first!" "I proposed this first!" "remember when I was the first person to mention this!" Plenty of times I or someone else has already said it way at the beginning of this very long thread, or talked about it in chat rooms else where. And whenever a change is implemented I always here "glad you guys are finally taking MY advice!"

I know I'm not one to talk, but I'll start responding to your posts seriously again if you ever get your ego in check. That goes for everyone else that says things like "OMG why isn't anyone responding to my post!" I don't know about everyone else, but to even respond negatively to a post implies I think you at least somewhat know what you're talking about, and can be reasoned with. If we see something fundamentally differently, we can't argue specific points between each other.
For example, let's say you think mech team killing should be allowed when I don't. I can't debate with you about whether mech should start with speed or not, because at your core you think mech should be getting twice the exp I think he should be to be balanced. So basically, I think your foundation isn't strong enough to worry about what you think about the finer things.