I don't really see how it's possible from looking at the triggers, but that doesn't mean it isn't. A replay would be very useful for confirming this. I can also tell you that if the mana drain is occurring independent of the stun, it's BS.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 28 2009, 5:47 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Considering this works only on bottom team, never know.

Archer still rapes Mech, especially with Archer's new l3. Mech can't just run up in vulture and rape without taking serious damage.

actually the mech fairs just as well as before the change when near spawn as those guardians target them instead. As for any other time he still has 3 forms from which to morph into. It is still pretty much the same game he plays with l4 except l3 forces him to take some damage while a l4 will miss everytime if the vulture plays it properly.

early game to mid game I'd say archer has the advantage but after that it swings back to mech. The 3 forms combined with L4 make the mech just way too versitle to not bring back the power to his side.

It allows Archer to run. If mech decides to switch forms, that gives Archer enough time to run away before the l4 hits.

Archer lv2 could do with a base attack nerf, and perhaps another HP nerf. I ended up 1v1ing as a marine against archer, and I had heaps more experience than him due to multilane feed with mines, but whenever I left my base he would come in, clear the invinc mines, and start doing huge damage to my temple, forcing me to play defensively, and eventually losing.

MEMEMEME MOST EPIC TS GAME IN THE ENTIRE WORLD!!!!!!

and also, replay was saved, and is a good indication of how op the spec. ops. l3 is right now.

Also a note of weird glitch: lm casts l2 reavers, reavers show up on mutant... very strange...

Archer is obviously going to win a base race or a 1v1, as he has summons. So is summoner. That doesn't mean the heroes are unfair.

Summoner would have been owned by my mines though. Archer and companions just took the hits of the invinc mines, and killed the rest. Then FIVE companions proceeded to own the temple, with visible HP bar changes every couple of shots. Just a mild attack-upgrade nerf would prevent that, while still being a viable lvl2.

Summoner would send one speedling in to pull the mines and then destroy your temple far faster than an Archer ever can.

I'm not convinced they need a nerf because in most games I've seen them used they are closer to feed than useful.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:19 pm by Decency.

Companions are nerfed enough. The actual archer could use an hp reduction though. It's terribly rape in beginning. Early game no feels like volt can never beat mech or archer. The early game counters feel like hard counters now to me. I'd really like to see only computer-allied-vision for the first minute of the match.

Then I thought "well then the hackers get the advantage" then I further thought "Oh wait no they wouldn't unless everyone on their team also hacked, because the scenario would play out rather fishy, and we'd be able to make notes of who hacks"

p1"mid"
p2"bot"
p3"mid"
p1"wtf im already mid noob go top"
p3"No, you should go top"
p1"why?"
p3"cuz I co-.... just go top"
p1"Oh I get it, you're a hacker, noted"

Agreed, or just start the map during night time. Archer should counter Volt and Mech: they are the only two units he does full damage to, and early game they have nothing to do, really. Pretty much any small unit will beat Archer, though.

I agree, but wouldn't starting during the night be... difficult, to re-adjust the triggers to do so? It doesn't seem as simple as it should be.

I agree with Dota Style starting, and think we need something added for situational encounters.

Eg. Your stuck in y our base, having killed the other two people, however a LM remains. You have broken his base + warp gates, but he is defending his base.

Current. Sim all bases, but unless you have medic/DM/summoner/archer(not likely) you are unlikely to win if the LM can get enough armor + attack, as the game will go on until likely one of you gets bored enough to leave, or somehow the LM breaks, or the other team breaks. If you approach LM, he will likely l1 l2 l3 you, and you will likely die.

If you dont approach, he gains massive exp...

Most heroes can have it end like this, rine will get mass upgs, and can win if he can get enough mines down to stall the spawn, which will take awhile but is maybe possible for his gates to get back up eventually.

Archer will get L2 and own your base with upgs, or leave l2 to defend and unleash l4.

Etc.

Games like DotA & HoN have both a major creep (Nashor, Roshan) which gives an amazing buff to all team members alive at the time of its death in LoL, and gives a player the ability to be revived on death once in DotA, and super creeps. In LoL they come once per wave, i BELIEVE in dota it upgs all your creeps, but idk. These allow you to push, as if the creeps are ignored/backed up enough they will own the base, but if you ignore the fact that you have them, they can be defended and succeded against (in LoL inhibs(Warp Gates) respawn, like TS)

Eh I've seen this glitch before in 1.5 I wonder how this occurs and why. Although When I saw it in 1.5 it was happening nearly every game. It was extremly annoying as the mutant could be halfway across the map from the lightmage and I would run up to kill the mutant and instead get slaughtered by reaver scarabs.

Re: Super Creeps. Killing Roshan/Kongor doesn't have any effect on your creeps. You just get experience, gold (around 1500 total for your team, a very good amount), and the respawn. In order to get super creeps, you have to destroy the barracks (Gateway) in the enemy's lane. That will make all of your creeps stronger. If you do this in all three of your opponent's lanes, you get mega creeps. Both types give less experience and less gold when killed by a huge factor, which is of major importance.

Adding a boss creep to TS would be interesting and a good way to push a stalemated game. I don't know what bonus would be fair, the only thing I can think of is a heal to level and invulnerability for x seconds.

Whoah, i said t hat wrong. I knew super creeps were differentiated in both games, but said it differently. XS.

Attached is a horrible game, say what you want about it, idc.

My reason for attaching is that at the end i was missing a lot of my shots, and it wasnt by DM l2 as they would sometimes hit and sometimes wouldnt.

Did i miss something?

Attachments:

Are we going to get an updated version before the tourney? Just asking I don't really care either way but I'd like to know thnx.

Moose said he would give us M8T for it, but I haven't heard from him about it in a while. I'll keep ya posted

Summoner is OP.

Yeah, i know youve heard it all before, alalalala, spawn beats him, alalalala.

Kk, so lets go over an organized team in TS.

Three people, each has a role. The most common are simmer stunner damager, who do what the name implies.

A random team would be Fbat stunner, warrior damager, mech simmer. (i could make these very specific types, but that may not be required)

This works for all units but summoner, in the way that this.

Stunner normally gets atleast l3, if not l4, as fast as possible. (random thought, medic doesnt fit into any of these catagories either, but she would fit where you needed her to, normally stunner damager medic damager sims)

Damager gets upgs, and whatever spells are required (not usually over l3)

Simmer gets some upgs, maybe a spell level (mech) and then sims, and continues to do what fits best with the situation.

Everyone gets health when needed.

Now, summoner does none of this. Summoners game is very different from any other characters, and not in a good way.

Laning: People that do very well: Warrior,Archer,DM,Mutant.

Warrior: Pressures, kills spawn easily for levels, and once your low hp you have to run unless youve got some very nice micro. Counters: Archer, Summoner. (note counters are for capping phase only, and are what counters the unit, not what it counters.)

Archer: Micros easily, High damage spell, High hp. Takes you to low hp with burning arrows, and youve gotta run, micro or no. Counters: Good Summoner. None else if microd correctly.

Dark Mage: Farms easily, harasses/kills with mael, high damage means even one hit is a big thing, high hp. Dm farms, maels you, your low hp and you run. If you dont run when your low hp, he will kill you with another mael and melee hits. If you cant be maeled, your slow enough so with snare you take a lot of hits. Counters: Summoner, Nothing else with perfect mael/snare except maybe Mech/Volt, but i rarely see it

Mutant: Fast, farms easily, high DPS. Mutant pressures you until your low in hp, and if your slow, will chase and kill you. If your fast, will stay on the beacon. Counters: Summoner, Mech, Warrior, Archer.

Now you may notice that all of those are countered by summoner. I am not here to say summoner is 100% unbeatable, no. Summoner is countered by a great medic, and a mediocre summoner will lose to almost anyone. However, in the laning phase, a great summoner will stall the lane for all its worth, while farming every single spawn that would be coming your way. If your mech, you may beat him due to him not wanting to sacrifice lings, but until you two hit them, this isnt gonna happen. He is effectively countered by DM in that the DM cant do anything, but can use mael elsewhere. Basically, if your up against a summoner in capping phase, all you can do assuming he is good is farm and wait, usually on the beacon because hes killing your spawn anyway.

Mid game, summoner gains his major advantage. If you think of a char as completed when they are done, and think of it in percents, summoner is counting by 10% while everyone else is counting by 5%, excluding assasin/not that great medic who counts by 7.5%. Why? Summoner does not require what other characters require to be good, he requires only two things.

Mana to cast l1.

Upgrades for his l1.

He does not require health, as he stays in his base. He does not require spell levels, as six civs are worthless of it and the three after get him ultras, but those nine civs would've been alot better elsewhere.

But, the most important thing about summoner being OP is that he NEVER has to risk his neck to do ANYTHING.

he can hide in base and farm, kill, base kill, scout, cap,(mid game, starting is when he has to come out) and mostly anything else any other hero can do except stun, which is why you have teammates.

I could post alot more, but i want this to get ripped apart first. GO SEN GO!