In a 3v2 against a complete newb and an AFK we barely managed to pull off the win. If he hadn't fed us with Goliaths and Dragoons, I doubt we would have won at all.

If we hadn't gone Reavers of our own, we had pretty much zero chance of winning.

Keep in mind this is with the reduced assimilator rate. He would have had three times as many reavers if he had just gotten Cy Cores and the assimilators were pumping at typical speed.

I wonder who that'd be.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 25 2009, 10:20 pm by xYoshix.

Just a not to both moose and urine,

urine when you finish v1.5 and moose when you make a non-kasien-ish update to your(like adding another hero, or making your own terrain) please start a new topic.


But don't close this one, I'm sure people will the play and want to discuss the classic.

What do you think about a fun PvE classic AoS type scenario where if the game starts no players on the opposite team, it beefs up the spawns and makes it a challenge. Like Battle Tanks occasionally spawning and such. Just a neat little extra, but don't go over board to keep map size low.

It would have to spawn like Goliaths that don't give huge EXP for it to be difficult at all, otherwise it's just free feed and the enemies have tons of cannons to go through. Unless you spawn a bunch of reavers, in which case who wants to play against that.

Spawns are feed, has always been my biggest problem with this. =o

I just remembered a superspecialawesomesauce thread that tells you how to make the computer upgrade on demand, which would free up a lot of units that would otherwise be used for spawns. http://www.staredit.net/topic/5332/

Well, I'm pretty sure, no unit should have one option...Ever.

Like I said, Vult comes in so fast, I died instantly. Remove the fucking escape delay, it's the only thing wrong with the update so far.

Considering that Weapon Barrage kills instantly, and Escape makes you go all the way back to the beginning...Where Vult can again get to you the second you come out of your base...

I'm confused..."Reavers are dumb"...In a rigged way, or a too weak way? :x I thought they were pretty weak in that replay, due to the 2:3/Full Heal spam. (In other words, they pretty much were balanced considerin' the 2:3, but they are usually overpowered.)


Also, I'd like to see items be purchaseable for TS. I don't know if that idea has ever been suggested, but I've seen some pretty nifty ideas throughout the last 20~~~ pages I read, that could be turned into one-use-items. (No healing items, unless like restore to 5%HP for emergencies...Even then...meh.) Um one of the top off my head, is a very short term night vision, that shows the map, but not SV's with the players (to keep the 'sin safe). ... Rawr...Also am I still the only one to have the two-hero-one-civ glitch happen to me?

You can also skewer-juggle, though if you aren't capable of using escape 1 second in advance using decapitate as an evade might be a bit above thy skill.

Besides, most classes aren't balanced to be equal against everything. What the crap is a warrior supposed to do against a DM?


Do you not have a minimap or something? Vultures can't teleport or cloak, you can see him coming. I don't understand how the vulture is ambushing you during the day.


At least you HAVE escape. Most classes have "shit your pants" available and nothing else.


I think it was on the list for things that would go into Temple Siege 2. The problem is "how to implement?" Starcraft isn't really conducive to an inventory system. A dropship would be clunky, having another building do it would be both limiting and difficult to make a UI for.

Fuck! What was I thinking. I obviously should have been escaping for 1 second, then instead of getting 1-2kills off the few zerglings there were! OBVIOUSLY, I should've just said...Meh, fuck it, I'll just camp here while the vult goes around raping me the second I get out of town, so I don't get a single kill off zerglin's. D00d werzbalance -> Cause, Fuck! It's easy to get kills at night as assassin!


Well shit, exscuse me for having better then 2 actions per minute, being, I can look around the map find out what my allies/enemies are doing. I look around the minimap all the time. Hence my anger towards dying instantly?... Ah, fuck you just died cause the vult attacked you while reading. Shit, game over man, game over!


Most classes aren't named "Assassin"? And most classes do, indeed, NOT die instantly to Mech's L4...LM -> Cast L1, gG to un-protected surrounded by it's own L4 mech. Mutant has speed, Warrior has speed. DM...Shouldn't be fighting mech anyway. Medic can stop it's spell cast entirely. Archer is just overall weak vs everything (As I've stated many pages ago). Volt rofl magnet>Mech L4. Special Ops, Range + Speed>L4. Summoner...Shouldn't really be fighting mech. Mech L4 is nowhere near overpowered.

You are the easiest class in the game to escape with, by far. If the vulture's hounding you out of spawn, which is definitely a good strategy, get a teammate's help, or use warps and the cover of cannons. That's why a Mech is so much more powerful the more warp gates you control, and why Assassin is a SUPPORT class. If it's just microing you, bait and L2 twice. Unless he's got mana to warp and a goliath with health, there's a kill.

If you can't keep track of where 3 enemy units are on a minimap where they appear in different colors, you deserve to be caught off guard. It's really that simple. On top of that, unless he has very high upgrades and you have zero life upgrades, you won't die until the tanks fire, which takes about a second or two in itself. Even if you were just looking at your screen, seeing the vulture come in is more than enough time to escape, unless you're very slow, again in which case you deserve to die.

What part of dying instantly do you not understand? Seriously. Bait and L2 twice? ROfLz Cause it's hard to cast L4 when you're paralyzed...(OR even it's L2 as vult)? And like I said, you may have 2 actions per minute, but I'm in general not watching my char consitantly. Press the hotkey every few seconds to check it. Remove the fucking delay, it's retarded. It's easily the dumbest addition to the game. "Lawl let's make a weak class weaker!"

I have to agree about the assassin. If you can't handle timing escape with a second or two delay, maybe you should play an easier game. Without the delay, the assassin's level 1 is incredibly OP. Not a single level 4 spell can kill the assassin, and in the hands of a good player the assassin will never die. It's one thing to have a level 4 spell that makes a unit unkillable, but a level 1? The delay not only makes it less OP, by making it a gamble as to whether you would have died or not, but also makes it require *some* skill to use. Spells that are notably better in the hands of a better player help differentiate newbs from experts, and make the game better. The game shouldn't be decided when heroes are chosen. It should be decided by who is the better player.

You sound like all the people who complain about all the nerfs in M3 compared to MT. Every person I hear complaining is bad at the game. They complain because they NEED the overpowered heroes to win. When the heroes are close to balanced, skill becomes too important, and they lose every game. Light Mage could already farm with its level 2 and get almost every allied spawn kill, but you need a 40 energy Psi Storm so it can storm almost every wave?

The heroes are much better balanced in M3 in my opinion. Summoner is still OP in a 2v2 with certain heroes, but I don't know what can be done besides removing adrenal glands (reavers stop it unless the summoner makes reavers/goons, but that will just feed an assassin/warrior/some other heroes if they are on the summoner's team). I think assimilators are a bit weak in M3, and think you should split the difference between M3 and MT and they should be good. Right now in MT capturing the warp gates is all that matters, and in M3 it doesn't matter at all. There should be *some* incentive to capture them, but it shouldn't decide the game. Assassin could maybe use a cool down for its level 3, even if it's only 5 or 10 seconds (or you could add player controlled static detection). A cool-down would allow him to make hit and runs, but not stack 4-5 level 3s in a row. His level 2 misses sometimes, even when being attacked by a melee unit, but I don't know if that can be fixed. Likewise Volt's level 1 doesn't stop units from attacking, but I don't know if that's intentional. Medic's level 4 may be too strong in a 3v3, but I don't know how to fix it besides maybe a long cool-down. Special Ops' level 4 mines pins everything but Volt, Mech, and Assault in base, so that may be a bit strong. I guess medic's level 4 may counter it too, but is it really too weak with targetable mines?

That's all the bigger balance issues I can think of off hand right now. I'm not sure if you want the game balanced for 2v2s or 3v3s, or for choosing or for random heroes, so that may dictate what is balanced and what is simply hard-counterable by 1 or 2 heroes. I'll make another post with suggestions for additions and non-balance changes.

You just confirmed my suspicions. I was writing my last post while you posted, so I didn't see this. You need to learn the basics of playing the game before you complain about balance. One of the absolute first things a player needs to learn is to use the minimap. A good player is looking at the minimap as much if not more than the main screen. Watch some VODs of pros and you'll see them constantly looking back and forth between the minimap and the screen. They even use the minimap for most move/attack commands. You say you look at your hero every few seconds...so what are you looking at? If there's any colored dot moving towards the green dot on the minimap, YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT YOUR HERO.

The assassin is not a "weak" class. It's the second hardest to kill (after summoner because they can sit at temple most of the game). It has 2 offensive and 2 defensive spells, allowing it to kill almost anything with a level 2 + level 4 (level 4 does 1800 + 30 per level, so 2 of them kills ANYTHING late game), and allowing it to avoid cannon damage, spawn damage, and with escape any spell death (or if you have over 30 apm and ANY sense of timing, any death). The only thing that stops it is medic. Because of escape, he rarely needs any civs for HP, and because of his level 3 the opponent can't hold any warp gates or geysers, so they won't be ahead on upgrades. That means all your civs go to spells. At night, only mutant and special ops counter it. Yes you can't farm well at night, but against a good assassin with level 2, they can't farm at all at night. I'd wager assassin is arguably the 2nd or 3rd strongest hero.

You have ONE unit. What the hell are you possibly looking at with your super duper APM that makes you NOT see the vulture coming? Are you just going back and forth from gateway to upgrades for a super high APM so you can brag to everyone about how good you are? Maybe you should watch what actually matters for you in the game before complaining about how things surprise you. As Assassin during the day, nothing should surprise you. As Assassin at night, it takes a good combo to see+hit you.

If your complaining about that then I'd hate to be your keyboard when you vs a mutant with str8 lurker tech.

The idea behind level 4's are (or should be) "Alright, this game has gone on lone enough, this should decide it within 10 minutes."

bring back assa's instant tele >;(!

I don't know if that was already reported for M3, but the assault can have an invincible dropship...
don't know how he got it.

and assasin was able to get an observer. he teleported near enemy north temple.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 29 2009, 12:29 am by Ahli.

You can get both assasin and warrior if you step between their beacons, I think.

The only one of those I agree with is LM. Speed doesn't give any of those classes an advantage at evading L4, since vulture is the fastest unit and the range of the tanks is too great. Medic can't stop the first l4, disable takes at least a second before it goes off, weapon barrage is instant. Magnet only means the mech has to manual, the barrage lasts long enough to still do some major damage to the volt. Spec Ops, range and speed mean jack when the vulture is faster (and evades mines!).

So uh, when's 1.5 getting release?

When I feel like it >:C