I think mech's level 4 should deal almost the same as ling's lv3 with the same upgrades. That should help guide you.

I know making rine+2 will cause a wave of rejection.

ECHO NOOOOOOO U TOOK THE THOUSANDTH POST ARGGGHH
I'VE BEEN WAITING THE ENTIRE DAY FOR SM1 TO POST On #999 SO I DON'T HAVE TO DOUBLEPOST NOOOO :C

battle-tank ... may be too ownage but i never saw it in action yet..
marine with +2 .. will not be rejected if my plans go correctly...
Mech's L4 is too OP waaaaaaaaay too OP

I know me two.

I guess I'm just a winner today

People always bitch when you take away the exploits they use to gain an advantage.

The rest of this is a copy and paste from the Temple Siege 2 Tournament thread. If you read it already there, it's the same here.

Things I did like:
- Temple HP seems about right. My team had a big lead in our first game, moved into their base, and took down the temple while both heroes were in spawn. It took a couple of minutes.

- Mutas seem balanced. See an equal number of people tech to L3 as spam L1.

- Ling seems balanced. (Definitely a more than viable option to go for melee upgrades, not ranged upgrades.)

- Maelstrom seems balanced, can be very useful if played well.

- Broodling life upgrade! Except double the life and their damage, ditto all other spawns

- No one used the spawn tricks.

- At least until the last match, players in the tournament were well mannered.

Things I didn't like:
- Cannons have 2500 life now? The armor didn't drop either, seems like a pointless increase. Make the pylons harder to kill than cannons, but there's no reason for the cannon's HP to be raised.

- Spawned goliaths gave some ungodly amount of experience, I think it was like 20 each, even though the cap is supposed to be 16.

- Marine HP+Damage spam owns everything. I'd be willing to bet that the team that had the marine (and I'm 95% sure it was picked in every game of the tournament) won. It was true in the 3 games my team played. Since this still hasn't been fixed, my solutions: L2=Vessel, EMP=250 energy. L3=SCV, buildings=Gas. L4=S.W.A.T. Team (4 summoned marines, permanent. The upgrades on these are very important, they can't be too powerful. Probably 15+1 would fit, and that matches the Marine spawn's damage.

- Mech is still too powerful in my mind even without taking into account the L4. My tentative solution is to remove vulture speed, but I really don't know how much of an effect that will have. I just know that as a vulture I can completely dominate any Zergling, Zealot, Summoner, Firebat, or DM until they get L3/L4, and usually after that as well. AHA! Make Vulture Speed researchable. Raynor by default doesn't have it, so this will be a pretty simple change. I'd suggest 100 minerals or so, because it really is a huge difference. You can also make Charon Boosters and Siege Mode researchable for a lesser price. That will also fix the problem with the Mech usually having so many damage upgrades in comparison to everyone else, which may indirectly make the L4 less imbalanced.

- The DM's maelstrom is balanced, but the DM really isn't too useful other than that. I honestly don't even know what its L3 is because I've never seen it used effectively enough to cause me to take note of it. When I play as DM, I must read through it going "that's useless." The L4 is somewhat useful, but it's a L4, and DM's tend not to EXP well against a good team because it's more of an individual PK'er. So that really makes teching a DM kind of a waste. It would be nice to give it a teleport L4 I think( Current L4--->L3). A cloaked wraith which can move for maybe 6-8 seconds. Give it 200 life though and if it gets shot down kill the DM. If it ends up over a non-spawnable place, return the DM.

- I'm just going say that the Summoner's L2 is useless. Someone used it against my teammate and all three of us simultaneously went "lol dumb move" or variations thereof. I never see its L3 get much use either, making the character pretty straightforward, although difficult to use well.

- Medic goes from being awful, awful, awful, to being amazing in the exact moment when it gets its L4. Barring disable, which can be useful in some cases but requires the Medic to be pretty much standing on top of someone to use it, due to its charge-up animation, so it can't fend for itself against a solid hero. I'd honestly say that I don't think 20+6 would be rigged for the Medic if the L4 was toned down to healing to max upgrading life-level. If this isn't enough, perhaps give a LENGTHY charge-up to L3, maybe 10 seconds, and then give nearby allies AND the Medic itself +120 mana. It and Assault are the two classes which deal only concussive damage, and I'd hazard a guess that they are the two least used characters too.

- Volt definitely does a great deal of damage for having such versatile spells. He has two stuns, a significant mana drainer (plus L1), and a supermode, and is the only unit that can pull heroes off the heal. Plus, he has ranged splash damage, so he gets experience faster than most. More importantly though, when he uses his stuns he can't be manualed by melee heroes. Yes, EMP's fuck him. Not much else does, though. +4 please.

In the above I gave a lot of ideas. Use them or not, but either way, I think every problem that I outlined could use fixing. Any questions/comments, please reply. A lot of these solutions are tentative, there may be variations that would work better.

Thanks

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:52 pm by Decency.

even though i dont use DM, they rly annoy me when i fight them lol they go 1.orb 2.curse(?) 3.some long lasting slow thing(possible mana drain), 4.oh god the broodlings ~_~ ya 2 and 3 might be swappedbut i think that is right, Id like to point out it isnt shnazy playing volt vs a mech and DM because dm just spams curse, which you cant manual through, and mech just spams manual attacks through my moves, basically making me have to stand doing jack all to gain exp or run back to heal every minute wasnt a very enjoyable match , also can you make it so you cant be cursed when at your temple? its sorta retarded how the DM just sat there spamming curse on me well the mech killed the temple, if i ran the mech would of killed me. Sitting and watching myself lose without any possible way of winning isnt great.

Good. You see, the thing is, up until now, I was just "fixing" Unholy's 1.4, not making drastic changes and additions of my own. Though it was called 1.4M, it still isn't "my" version in the sense that things are done the way I want them. I didn't go around switching spells and redoing the charcters. This tournament marks the end of the age of 1.4M.

Armor was decreased 2 points.

Er um uh er, crap... just checked the triggers... the cap was at 900 kill score and not 600. >_<

I might do something crazy like switch Tank Mode and Bike Mode.

More Psionic Storm abuse.

i actually think the idea to switch bike mode and tank mode isnt too bad considering how much stronger ironically the bike is XD

Very true, its rare that you see the tank used, you see the bike much more often.

Everything FaZ stated can be countered. He just complains a lot about little things.

The fact that it can be countered doesn't make it balanced. That's such an idiotic comment. If by countered you mean logically; do so.

If you switch Tank and Vulture I think the tank will have to be nerfed. Even taking explosive damage into account, it's very powerful, I can usually 1-hit zerglings by the time I start using it. And it's definitely the best building killer in the game, even unsieged.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 7 2008, 10:10 pm by FaZ-.

First off, I want to express how I don't like the spawns hp and dmg increase as it does mess up some units, like medic for one and some others. Even though I think spawns should be used for leveling (at least when they arent straight upped to hydra). If you do keep them with 60 hp then at least increase some of the base heros attack like medic for one, since it takes 10 ups to 1 hit broods with med and 5 ups to 2 hit them. Also broods arent going to be the bane of combat to add spawns to the mix then your starting spawns have to be extremely powerful to consider it imo.

As for Hydra, I dont think the lvl 1 vs lvl 3 is still debatable. Lvl 3 still isnt useful due to the fact that only by the time you get 300 xp that it can become viable and you have to upgrade their attack and armor for them to stand a chance. Since they are only useful in a pack, it takes 5-6 of them to become truly effective. I have yet to see someone even consider going lvl 3 vs good players, and so many aoe's can counter them, for the mana cost and the amount of upgrades it takes to make them useful they become extremely weak in comparision to a spell 1 spam.

As for mech, Blu and I were discussing this last night and the idea came up of about keeping the reaver. But find a way that each time it is transformed into, you get extra ups. Which would help solve the problem of not being a useful attacker without teching the upgrades and doing something along those lines of, x amount of times used equals x amount of extra upgrades. Or, i suggested making siege tank lvl 4 and making the attack extremely high (like 500 dmg with +10) and giving it an anti melee spell to prevent basing. Or, just make the siege very very powerful and not giving a spell so they can just transform back when melee comes. But the current lvl 4 is still very strong.

Anyways, those are a few ideas that some of us have tossed around. We had more but I cant recall them at the current moment

-BlueDestiny8

I made it's level 3 viable even before archer got +5.

Your reaver idea is impossible with staredit limitations. I still think my More Than Meets the Eye lv4 would have been best for mech.

I wasnt sure about the reaver idea, Blu had mentioned something about spellsword having some sort of tracker for it? I wasnt sure since I hardly know anything about staredit

And I do disagree about lv3 archer, though id like to see yours

Also, what is this lv4 you thought of for more than meets the eye?

In spellsword, whenever you got a better weapon, it'd give you the set amount of minerals and it'd have a tracker to make sure you used it on the weapon..actually, i better example:

In spellsword, attack and shields have the same minerals. Attack costs 1 with a 1-second time that will cancel immediately (give building to computer, then give back) and refund saying you need to use it on attack. Shields cost 50, so if you get a shield upgrade and try to use it on attack, it'll detect this and, as I said above, give the forge to computer then back to you, canceling the upgrade because of that 1-second interval to make the upgrade for attack(it also doesn't ruin the hotkey you have for it). That way you can't use shield upgrades to upgrade 50 attack instead. I've played spellsword a lot so I know a lot about it If you don't understand, I can try explaining it better.

Anyhow, I think it'd be confusing to implement this into TS.

Vote for Temple Siege! http://www.staredit.net/topic/5410/

I don't know if this is supose to happen, but for top team, Mech Goliath form doesn't get invincible near heal.

Definitely not 10 seconds for the pub version.

I say 40 seconds with a warning after 20 seconds.