I'm not attacking your moderation. Maybe I should have used a global term/example, instead of choosing someone I've dealt with.

Why do you believe its a poor idea? I have yet to see a reasonable explanation as to how bringing LD back would be a 'poor idea'..It fixed a lot of issues in SD in v4, and more people started to post in both of them after LD was created..

To all those who think moderation in SD is being constantly unfair (I stress constantly):

Moose observes people and their judgement, views and behavior for quite some time before making them moderators. Hence, every moderator has judgement Moose trusts. If you think that a moderator is constantly giving out bad judgement, it's not his flaw, it's Moose's preference. Hence, any argument should be made against Moose's views on things. And since this is not a democracy, such arguments are useless. You can try arguing about specific cases, but not the general picture. ...at least not now.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but I'll say it again: If someone has a problem with moderation, they can contact me via pms, and I will gladly reason with anyone about anything I've ever done. I, and Vrael, have reasons for everything we do. Don't try to bring things out into the public in order to solidify your claims by starting bandwagon movements. Just ask us when we take an action why we did so, if you honestly don't know why.

What if you're the problem?

We will be examining this possibility over the next few days.

You make it sound like a reward.

You're reading it out of context. I'm just saying that if you're accusing someone of being constantly unfair, Moose made a grave mistake, which is highly unlikely (he's not IP ).

Untrue. I was there when Cecil was first asking Vrael advice on how to become a moderator; I barely knew Cecil. A few days later, Cecil is moderator.
I sent a PM asking why you deleted a post because it didn't have names in quotes. The PM 'debate' ended with you saying, and I quote: "You gotta follow rules imposed just like every other member of the SD, no matter who you think can actually argue.". So, a rule imposed. Not a rule written. Basically a 'No u, im a mod bich'. Then, in a few days, you found a post where I forgot to put in names and gave me a severity point.

Find me one precedent of someone else fining two severity points for posting an image as mild as the one I posted. When you single me out for punishment because I should be put in my place, that's not fair moderation.

Additionally, that's not true. Moose is getting engrossed with real life. He hasn't coded in a long while, and refuses to read my complaints because he's 'wasted too much time' (paraphrased) on them. When a very simple solution is creating a staff rank to oversee moderation complaints or elevating more administrators, I'd say Moose made a grave mistake.

EDIT: Gah. You guys are vainly defending your fantastic moderation skillz, throwing this topic off as I respond to them. What's wrong with a Light Discussion, again?

EDIT: Removed moderator bashing as phase one of my 'charm offensive'. I still kept some, as this was recent and relevant to not-moderator-bashing reasons.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Jan 24 2010, 12:34 am by Centreri.

Cecil was around for quite a while. If memory serves, he was here before SEN went down.

First of all, you failed to read the word 'constantly' in my post. And since I've never moderated you in SD before, you cannot even fabricate a second case of unfairness agaisnt me. Hence you've made a logical error. Now let us remove the assumption that my actions were unfair and try to back it up somehow. Then we should recall my PM I sent to you, where I stated that in the topic about your case in the staff forum, there was a general agreement that my actions were just. And the best part is that I don't need to give examples of similar judgement calls because I've never seen anyone post such stuff in SD.

But he wasn't a very active SDer, or I would've known him.

On the logical side, that statement wasn't meant as a blatant refutation, as shown by the 'That's not true' only being applied to the second portion of my response. I wasn't saying that you're constantly unfair, I'm saying that you were unfair. No one can be wrong 100% of the time. As for the 'agreement', not only do I not actually know that, nor know any of the specifics (is your definition of agreement 100%, or 51%), but that could simply be a result of peer pressure. other pressure (Moose ranting about how I'm the antichrist (I know it's unlikely)) or general moderation unfairness. Your 'agreement' is irrelevant to your actions actually being unfair. I could very easily say that there's a consensus that SD moderators are unfair AND that we need an LD, based on this thread. Also, you're telling me I'm the only one to ever post an image in SD? You're telling me that that's an excuse to give me any number of severity points?

I started typing in my post before you added the last two paragraphs.

You don't need to be active in SD to have powers to moderate it. Me, Farty and Mrrll weren't very active in SD.

*skims over topic* By general agreement, I mean everyone who directly responded to my question regarding my judgement call: Doodan, Cecil, Vrael, Dapper, Devlin. Do you think Doodan was an unfair moderator? How about Dapper? Dunno, I think they're both outstanding mods. Oh, I'm under soooo much peer pressure in the staff forum.

I think I'll end our little discussion here by quoting Vrael from that topic in the staff forum, just as a reminder to you:
Stop posting about things that are not even remotely important. Good day, sir.

For clarity's sake, I warned Cent via pm before deleting his post he didn't put the names into. He didn't put the names in there simply because he didn't want to. The severity was for ignoring my request as a moderator more than anything.

Also, I never asked Vrael how to be a moderator, I just bugged him wanting to become one. He and I argued over metaphors about sticks and whacking people.

I wanted to write 'I'll try my best to refrain from responding to you on the topic of your moderation further in order to stop the derailment of this thread, and I'm sorry if it looks like I'm trying to get the last word' after responding to you two, but I decided it wouldn't seem authentic, and that it WOULD be me trying to get the last word, so I deleted it . If you want your responses, ask for 'em or PM me.

Back on topic. Can anyone think of a good reason not to implement a Light Discussion forum?

I'd volunteer on a temporary basis, until we see who's active in the forum and decide on a moderator from there.

If that's actually the object to having a Lite Discussion forum, I would do it. But I think the real problem is Centreri staked his reputation to this motion and lost, so now it's tied up in political red tape.

In looking at some of the moderation in Serious Discussion, I am convinced an LD forum would be beneficial. While the moderation seems to be consistent (and thus I would deem it fair), the standard and rules that are being kept are of the utmost strictness, to the point of hindering relaxed discussion. It's not really a "discussion" forum anymore, but rather more of a place for extremely formal debate.

If DTBK wants to take care of it, I wouldn't object to the idea. I'm not even going near it though, and best of luck dtbk.

Well, the only legitimate response to this is "LOL"

And you don't need to address me directly, Centreri. I have no ability to implement a LD forum.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 23 2010, 10:31 pm by Vrael.

Thank you. I'm confident in my ability to moderate a Light Discussion forum, but I wouldn't expect the powers that be to share my confidence, so your volunteering goes a long way towards making Light Discussion a reality.

I'm not looking to discuss or go back and forth, just casting my vote:
I don't want an LD, we don't need one, Cent is just fighting so hard for it because:
A. He can't get away with BS in SD, which lead to...
B. He's now banned from SD.

Further, if LD is to be created, I will not stand to see Cent have any power over it. If you have to remove someone from a forum like SD for being the main source of problems, the last thing you're going to do is give them power over another discussion forum. I wouldn't give him modship of Null.

Cent, I really suggest you pursue a different angle at SEN, because as far as discussion goes, you're just too problematic to be worth anything. Either start mapping or take your BS somewhere else. In my eyes you're boarding on more trouble than you're worth, and we've already removed a few people for that same reason.

From a few posts back, I'm refraining from arguing with any moderators on the topic of me and SD. It was off-topic and, I now understand (after people keep bringing it up), counterproductive. I will ask you, Ex, to give me advice via PM, and to focus on the practical problems with the idea of Light Discussion in this thread. If you're neutral to the idea, that's fine; if you don't like it, please tell us why so we can try to alleviate your concerns.

If there's a moderator in this forum, it'd also be great if some moderator-bashing was removed. I'll do it for my own posts. You all know my stance anyway.