Quality thread!

There should be a link to these pages in the Map intro or the in-game tutorial.

I can agree with the LM/Mutant, I underestimated the Light Mage.

Assassin and Mech is weird. The Mech will win verses the Assassin during the day, but it's a different story once the sun goes down.

I totally wish more people played 1.5, or 1.4 gets Phantom added. By far, that is the most origional class, and my best.

Really? I find it bland, but I like the idea behind its Lv4, and I even hear talk about that being changed.

[Asshole comments removed]

From DMz0rz entertainment, Egos will be shattered, Medics will be burned...enjoy. [attach=3350]

THIS is how you counter a medic.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 16 2009, 8:25 am by Dark_Marine.

You counter a medic by playing him 3v2 and having the Medic exp twice as slow by staying in a STUPID spot the entire game? Posting this replay has absolutely nothing to do with the game, you just won a game against someone you've been arguing against and wanted everyone to know that because you won it means you're right. [/sarcasm]

You come out looking a lot worse in that replay than anyone else, take your petty fucking argument with Maxx elsewhere.

The purpose of this demonstration was how to properlly counter the medic. It is used for educational purpose, not flame.

However I cannot deny the satisfaction I had when we destroyed the enemy team. We as in a team, as it is a team game, defined many places inside.

Her is another preview of how to counter a Medic with Full heal. [attach=3364]

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 18 2009, 7:25 am by Dark_Marine.

Medic sucks in 2v2. You played 3v2, and if you think one free civilian balances an extra 3 lives and an extra hero...

Not only that, but you guys came pretty close to losing. The correct response should have been to upgrade spawns right to Hydras after you got map control. As boring as that is, it's the only reliable way to beat a Volt that's playing defense. With Medic support, that's even more true, unfortunately.

That's why I've said from the start that spawns should be able to do significant damage and that killing warp gates should be a plus for your team, this replay just emphasizes that fact, especially due to it being M3.

Actually, when I play, it's pretty tough to freeze mech because once it transforms the spell is lifted.

False. It does negate a portion of the duration due to you being cloaked and untargettable, but the spell is not lifted.

DISCLAIMER: This is my build for the summoner. I am fully aware of others like going for upgrades first, simming first etc. This one was the best for me and it seems rather unused by the majority of summoners. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Arguably the hardest class to play as, the summoner, when played correctly, can control the entire map.

(Of course with every good strategy flexibility is key, but this is just a basic outline of how I play as the summoner, and it works out pretty well. Also, the version you are playing makes a HUGE difference as well. In some the summoner gets 9 max, older ones 12, but harder early game, etc.)

My build:

1. First civs go into mana, no matter what, while having the summoner waddle down to a gate. (doesn't really matter which one)
Summon as many lings as possible and if another hero is around consume the lings and plague the hero, if not, focus on training and capturing.
Usually another hero shows up, but in 1v1 or 2v2 sometimes you get lucky, so skip 2 section if you capture successfully and move to 3

2. Enemy hero tries to stop you from capturing the gate, and so you micro away keeping them in sight and keeping them from capturing the gate, while using plague on them and replace it as soon as it wears off. By the time you have used the second plague an ally should be able to help you, if not continue to plague them and use your lings as a way to finish them when they try to run back. As the summoner, spawn are your friends. It is really good at traping heros later on with a ton of lings and using abilities (this means things like burrow and plague, not spells like L1) to keep the heros away from itself.

3. Now if you captured successfully or not the next step is the same: careful training. Try to invest your civs into mana more than money because latter on the mana is really needed for having infinite consume and constant lings. If necessary use some civs for money and start simming in protected places. Now to train carefully, you must time your attacks with your own spawn and use the spawn to take damage from the enemy's while you deal the death blow. Very easy xp.

4. Eventually money from sims will allow you to upgrade your lings, spend most of it in this order: 10 armor then 3 melee attack. Make sure you have enough armor, it lets your lings survive and fight another round of spawn = more xp. Once the 2nd level spawn start appearing hoard your money and get fast attack at your pool, it gives your lings the edge against the dumb spawn.

5. Killing enemy heros is easy for a mid game summoner. Just get your L2 after you have 200+ mana and 9+ lings (with speed upgrade). Send everything (except the summoner) at the hero and they usually attack. As soon as they are surronded by lings use the L2 and watch the explosions. There is a tiny possibility that they might escape, but have more lings run after them and use L2 again if necessary. The infested terran run fast enough to catch most heros and have 150+ armor so only loads of weak range units can kill them, so they are best used as the "Surprise!" or cannon killing bombs.

6. This is the best I can give you without having to go into many different situations senarios, etc., because each late game strategy is best for countering a specific hero. There's just too much for one post about summoner late game, and there are sure to be other people with better ideas, so experimenting is the key to making a great strategy.

Here are some basic tips:

Night is your friend, especially if you have the mutant on your side. You can farm most spawn routes simulataneously and capture gates quickly. This is where dark swarm comes in. Use dark swarm on any spot you don't want to have attacked by ranged units (or buildings). No unit can be harmed by any outside ranged attack while in the cloud, great for cover while capturing a gate. Also, you can call your allies and make a run on their base. Simply use DS on the pylon supporting the cannons and let your minions tear them to shreds, the allies are there to deter any enemies from disturbing you.

Don't ever be afraid to run away from a fight. The summoner is best played when he gets to choose the fight and its conditions. With the proper setup he can even take out his counter, the mutant, easily. (I did once and it was epic)

L3 is an odd spell. It gives the summoner so much hp based on how many summons he has, and the minions die in the process. Also, the summoner reverts back to normal hp after a certain amount of time. Most players ignore it, or use it as an "O SHIT!" button for when the summoner gets spawn trapped. Other than you can make the summoner mostly invicnable and letting him cast plague or DS in a hot spot and running away alive.

L4 summons ultralisks, but you can only have 2 at a time. Since they have the same attack and armor as the lings as soon as you get L4 (WAAAAAY in late game) they will be very powerful. Some versions you can upgrade their speed adn armor, some this is standard. They are probably the best units for finishing off heros and taking hits for the summoner while he makes more and more as they die.

Stick with it. Eventually you will get the hang of this class and you will be very satisfied when you do.

Ultras are pretty much only useful for taking hits from mech. Anything else, lings can do better. You also forgot to mention getting the two speed upgrades.

My summoner build is: put all civs on mins. If you have enough, get attack speed straight away. If not, save those minerals until you can. The reason you want that first is because lings pretty much twice as much attack with the speed upgrade.

After the adrenal glands upgrade, get armour. 6 armour(or 7 depending on what version) is enough to make broodling hits nothing to your lings. Use a few civs on this and movement speed upgrade.

After you have 6/7 armour, attack speed, and movement speed, put ALL your civs into mana. Any minerals you get should go to attack, although as the spawn upgrades, you can get more armour. Once you have max lings, you should be able to multilane feed, hit heroes, and capture bases.

GENERAL TIPS
-Use your defiler aggressively, at least until you have only one life left.

-Plague always. Especially lowhp units like the light mage and mutant. One or two plagues force them back.

-Dark swarm is good. Use it when it can help you trap units, and when you capture bases.

-Don't bother upgrading spells. Lvl 1 is all you need.

-Multilane feed, especially at night. If your allies complain, tell them you can win by yourself, if you don't like it, leavethat you need it to kill X, or else 'I didn't notice, sorry.' and keep em there.

HOW TO CAP BASES
There are two ways. The first is ok when you have only one life, or when you are so far ahead that the base is only good as a teleport. Use method two the rest of the time.

Method one.
Send up the defiler and max lings. Dark swarm a pylon, and send in the lings to kill said pylon. You should only need to kill one pylon, no matter what base.

Method two.
Get max energy, dark swarm the beacon, and sit on it. When the swarm is going to run out, consume a ling or two and fire it again.

Both methods are best tried at night, or when the opponent can't do anything about it.
Top base can be captured by just running the lings through the cannons. You can swarm if you want, but it shouldn't matter.

Bottom base is easiest if you go through the passage that doesn't have cannons guarding it. Only hit the pylon by the beacon if you use method one. The other two can stay.

Middle base only requires one dead pylon with method one. Your lings or defiler can sit on the edge of the beacon and not get hit by the other set of cannons.

Aha! I can't believe it's taken me this long to find this topic! I can't sit still in my seat 'cause I'm so ready to write down my Dark Mage builds!
First, I shall post a few different builds.

1 --- *The L4 rush*

1 - Money *You need to get 3 attack ASAP to one-hit spawns*

2 - Mana, Your Dark Orb's maelstrom is higher priority then l2 in the early game.

3-4-5 - L2

6-7 - Mana, 120 by now, You need to be able to l2 twice in an emergency, (because how much does having your l4 before 120 mana help? It doesn't.)

8-9-10 - L3

11-12-13 - L4

14-15-16-17-etc. - Mana (with one or two HPs if you die or have a close call)

Upsides: You get your l4 quickly(DUH), and you are almost guaranteed to get at least one kill if you land it on someone.

Downsides: Your attack upgrades are not near as high as they would be late-game, and if you somehow miss hitting someone with your l4, you have NOTHING but 1-3 maels and ensnare to save you (and teammates).

2 --- *Power Dark Mage*

*Spend all money on attack upgrades, by the time you get your L3, you will already have at least 10 att upgrades.

1 - Money (2 att)

2 - Mana

3 - Money (4-5 att)

4 - HP

5-6-7 - L2

8 - Mana

9 - Money (7-8 att)

10 - HP

11-12-13-14-etc. - Alternate between HP and Money (spend on att). May get L3 and L4 anytime one wishes to get it.

Upsides: You'll almost certainly deal the single most damage per attack out of all the heros.

Downsides: You do not have very many defenses, as most "Power Heros" get very little defense, therefore take full/most damage from spawn, summoner goblins, & other attacks.

1 --- *My Strategy*

First things first, I am a DEFENSIVE Dm, I do not get pure attack upgrades, I get my 3 attack to one hit spawns, then 6 defense, then 9 attack, then 9 defense, then alternate between the two to keep them even from then on. I always use my civs in THIS ORDER:


1 - Money (2 attack)

2 - Mana (80)

3 - Money (3-4 defense) *Get 3 attack before you spend on defense*

4-5-6 - L2

7a - If there are no sims by now or planning to be built, Money. (Get 9 attack before goblins come)

7b - Mana (100)

8-9-10 - Mana (160)

11-12-13 - L3

14 - Mana (180)

15-16-17 - L4

18-19-20-21-etc. - Alternate between HP and Mana.

Upsides: I'll almost always have SOMETHING to defend me, whether it be 3 consecutive l2s or ensnare or maelstrom, and getting the early defense REALLY helps against spawn.

Downsides: I usually do not have the highest attack with this strategy, and if nobody is simming, then I will suffer, because I can't get all the upgrades I need via farming. (that is, I can't get the upgrades before I need them)


Well, there you have it, 3 builds I've taken the time to transfer from my head to this screen. Later, I might write "HOW TO USE THESE BUILDS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE" or something like that.

Thanks for reading.

*Edit#1: Changed all "strategys" to "builds"*
*Edit#2: Forgot to finish Edit#1 *

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 29 2009, 9:12 pm by OlimarandLouie.

Hmm, I didn't read most of the posts because i'm far too lazy to do so. This is my general strategy that is only 3 simple steps if you aren't randoming.

1. Pick a unit that can assim well. Example: Firebat(Assualt)- his splash allows him to feed on both his spawn and the opponents which is very useful for assiming.
2. Pick a unit that can stun. Example: I would recommend Warrior because of his L3 stun's long range.
3. Pick a unit that is a strong offensive player. Example: Possibly Mutant or Spec. Ops(If your going to go power rine that is)

I saw some previous posts by other players, but they seemed more of a guide then a strategy. I hope these 3 simple steps help you when you play Temple Siege. Good luck

That will get owned. Its not about sim/power/stun. Its about the intracies. Do you want LM as your power and warrior as your stun together? NO WTH. Lm will hardly be there when warrior is, and even if he is, his l2/l4 will damage the warrior along with the opponent. Do you ever want something like an assault/dm/mutant team, NO WTH. Dm will have a huge chance of messing up if you are with two melee bio units. You also forgot about covering yourself. If you have a volt, you might want rine so they cant have it and be emping your azz all the time.

meme i found your post quite funny seeing as that was what you guys chose for your first match in the latest tourney. The minor switch you had was the zealot instead of fbat with your mutant and olis dm. Obviously when picking this setup you need to pick characters that will work well together and well against your opponents choices not just one character that meets each criteria.

I based my post off of the normal players. If your partners have specialities, use them.

I find that Mech has only 2 effective strategies late in game for pking people
l4:Most obvious, spawns 3 Tanks, Vultures and Goliaths. Any Mech with 10 upgrades makes it an instant kill to almost any unit
L3:Note that this requires 220 mana. Go into Vulture mode, get 220 many ready, go close to opponent and use l3 two times(They may run, may not), after effects of l3 wear off go l2 and run off(This Strategy works best when the tank is sieged before l3 so it does more damage. One flaw in this is that it doesnt work on Light mage, *Undisabled*Assasin, or any unit with high speed, it is an assured instant kill though.)
Those who know of any others please post them

There's always the damage/hp vulture build. All you have to do is get some minerals at first and then level 2. After level two, you can choose between getting a bit mana or not; then you get pure damage, and later, you get some hp. This build utilizes the speed of the vulture to chase down low-hp heroes while they're going back to heal.

This is one of my top 5 fav builds