Hope you haven't made any changes yet- new terrain is on the way. Maybe tonight.

i was playing a couple of games just now and one game was really buggy, i was phantom red was a Psion and CAFG was a sin. For some reason red kept getting a ton of corsairs. We decided to let purp eat them since he didnt ragequit when his teammates died but it was still pretty wierd. the d-web also drained our mana if we went under it

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 23 2010, 9:24 pm by Wing Zero.

I've been thinking about what CAFG said when i played with him and how he complained that he never got to pick a character and kept being forced into random by red so i have come up with a solution ----- Let the players vote on it!! This solution seems like a Win-Win for me because the players feel like they at least have an input in the process and since majority rules they pretty much wont complain if they win of lose the vote

EDIT: oops double post

EDIT2: In order to not triple post ill just edit this one, I was playing with my friends just now and one of the bigges complaints ive been getting is that the cannons have no armor and that pretty much any character can kill them by the time the lings come. Another complaint ive been hearing is that the spawns are to hard to keep up with in terms of defense if you have no sims (i know this for a fact since i always get stuck stubborn people insisting that the DM-(me) should sim)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 25 2010, 12:00 am by Wing Zero.

yes with new spawn hp it makes it that much more difficult to kill which is not a bad thing but it sure provides incentive for demolishing any sims that pop up for the other team.

S'funny because ppl complained how the spawns are too easy to kill in the first version, making me rethink and recreate an entirely new system to make spawns stronger without screwing the game up. I'll file this complaint under the whiners folder for now.

As for what CAFG said in the replay ("See I hate 1.6 cause I never get to pick") is part of my cunning plan to increase its popularity. If u want to pick, then Host it. Also, I will release a Tourny version which only alternating choice is allowed, resolving this issue for competitive players.

EDIT: Sidenote.. Both CAFG and MiniMoose will inevitably be biased against my map.. it's only natural D: .. I'd complain about M8T or M9 or w/e CAFG makes later on, too. Because of this, I haven't really asked them directly for help... If either of u read this, just know that I respect whatever u guys think, but I needed motivation and unbiased suggestions, and I felt that it was probably better to ask other ppl. (And anyway, you guys didn't post anything here... which tells me u guys don't really want to be part of it

Yea I can definately see how the ED is overpowered. With Stronger spawn hp it takes everyone two hits to kill a spawn at first which slows them down considerably. I have yet to see how an ED can be out exped when he splash kills faster than every other unit can except maybe for the use of spells which can kill spawn faster than him alone.


However couple of notes
...The temple north off center is starting to bug me I've died endgame when I shouldn't have because I'm trying to target spawn but I have no room to move arround. The second I do I am swarmed.

...I've see stray south spawn all the time. It feels like they are just out to kill my sims.

...The psion's L2 really feels weak to me. Granted it drains mana but It doesn't seem to do damage all that well. The best I've done with the spell is use it to escape when near death. You get people to chase you by themselfs and you can cast it hits if they are running directly behind you stalls them for a bit and drains a fair deal of mana.

...I've thought maybe with the arb as its l4 it could amplify spells with in the vacinity of it. 2 invincible goons for l1 example l3 15 sec duration. L2 Idk yet as a feel the spell needs a bit of work.


1. I guess my biggest complaint are doodads. They are horribly annoying for big units. Everytime I'm a Big unit I end up going south outside lane for some reason and it is just littered with them. I don't mind having them for extra cover but this is way to many and It is somewhat hard to get away with a big unit when you can't take shortest distance between A and B but your opponent can.


2. Also the spawns meet in really wierd places on the map which makes it harder to feed sometimes. The south outside lane is the worst IMO because the bottom outpost norther cannons sit way too far foward and in the same lane but near the south's base they sit relatively far forward as well or at least far enough foward that the spawn seems to meet as it goes into the cannons.


3. The gysers that were sort of gime within the protection of the base aren't as well defended as they once were. They are both much easier to assult than before and the North's can be hit by ranged spell units without even destroying one cannons

Well then... I'm just gonna say that Moose and CAFGs Version is a lot neater, which is is actually important to some people. I like how Moose made the upgrade corner so you only get the buildings you need compared to your maps clutterfest , and when mech transforms he doesn't pop out of traps and such. There are more examples of their professionalism but i feel you see what im trying to say.

EDIT: I forgot to mention i played with a guy who said he was playing on mac and it was working, it was a perfectly normal game once the lagger left. Here's another complaint, the cannons have NO armor. My one friend says any character except medic and engineer can kill the cannons before the ling spawn comes.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 25 2010, 4:06 am by Wing Zero.

A few improvements based on my extremely limited playing time.

Phantom is my favorite 1.5 player, so this is all I can give ya. I don't know if he's popular or what, but it's really just the small things to lessen the skill required. If anyone thinks requiring skill to play a unit is a good thing, then screw you. All it's going to do is make people play some other character. Look at ophelia in HON. Nobody plays her because nobody can micro 5 guys.

L1 : excellent. Randomization is perfect, and removes lock.
L2 : I like it, but one shot is very difficult. Can you make a permanent ghost in some corner, preferably which never changes players so the phantom can hotkey at any time? The way it is now you have to be super close to the unit, and select your guy, then attack in too short a span.
L3 : Lurker is immune to the "hook" effects if used while burrowed, and it only works as a stun. It's your call. I'd prefer the hook have a long timer, can't go further than a large location from the phantom, then when someone is hit by the hook, they are hooked for a much shorter duration and constantly ordered to the scourge. I disagree with the ability to "escape" a hook, but that's just me. If the unit gets outside the PHANTOM's large location, then sure, stop the hook.

Rine l2 : if it's stun, then make it like m4+ with the detonation.
Rine l2 : if it's dropship, then meh. You should probably give him an upgraded shuttle or something. I don't know. It was plenty good vs slow units, but there's no hope for faster units.

Heh, I was just working on terrain and just fixed Mech's 'jumping'. I'll work on the upgrade buildings too.

did you know you can cap bot without being hit by the cannons at all?

Yes, the cannons have been moved around.

so when is the new terrain coming?

#1 The problem with your with the first suggestion{same as flashbeers few pages back} of hotkeying is most people have gotten off two shots with this and it isn't all that difficult I've done it myself once or twice. The real problem arises is a couple of people have actually gotten off 3 hits with it.
If you allow for hotkeying then most people would be getting off two shots and hitting off 3 shots would be a lot more common and greatly unbalance the skill.
Also If you shorten the duration the skill doesn't work nearly as well for dodging which it was clearly designed to do since at one point it was create a ghost with high powered attack for 1 shot.
The phantom needs its dodge and this skill needs its balance sorry but you are going to need to get a bit better at targeting.

#2 As for your second suggestion the skill becomes a bit overpowered if used as a hook. To some extent you can already lure people into cannons with this much like the volts spell and improving its hooking would make this even more deadlier.
You also suggest lowering its duratiopn as balance but really all that does is make the spell far weaker as you won't be able to do much with it. At least as it is now it is a decent stun skill and can be used to pull people off temple and keep them stunned there.

then make it 2 shots and cut the damage in half. If people can do it with hotkeys, then they can certainly do it without, it's just that much harder, thus increasing the skill required to be a good player. I would frequently cast the spell in 1.5, and the ghosts would just stand there, and never actually attack.

hook is broken by name if it's only useful effect is a stun. By nature of SC, you can easily move away from a constant ordering to slow its progress towards wherever the hook is leading it. In many cases, the player can simply click fast enough to move essentially none. A skillful player can abuse the pause glitch so that no order will affect it, forcing a stun (which they can end at any time) allowing them to either escape the "hook" or ride it out. The end result is that the unit doesn't move nearly as far as the hook is leading it.

Except that you can only do that on slow units, who won't move fast enough to lure them into cannons in the first place. "to some extent" doesn't cut it. The archon's l2 is inescapable, and longer due to chainability. And yet we hardly ever see people being dragged into cannons. That's because they know when they see the archon running towards them, they run away. Same goes for a scourge. Even by running away that little bit, you've now prevented yourself from getting even close to the cannons.

2 shots will be pretty bad since it would become a cheaper Spec Ops L3 from m8 and we all know how that sucks for everyone else

It already is like that, except harder to get two-three shots off.

Agreed(with Rockz), on both parts.

On the other hand, the Phantom doesn't need l2 to avoid attacks when he's got hook and hallus. It's pure overkill. Switch up the l2 for a sniper on summon for 1 free(auto) shot instead of immobilizing the phantom and avoiding a couple of attacks that probably wouldn't save him anyway. This is LM all over again except LM with bad damage and a bad stun.

Phantom's Hook spell has me often shaking my head as often as using his L2. It's just so easy to escape it. This would be better if the Phantom's L2 was a free sniper shot so he can chain it against a chaser but can't chain it with other spells to prevent him from being imba. I.e. he can't use L2/L4 while L3 is active.

PS. As I've yet to hit anyone with his L2, I'm assuming the damage is within the +15 range. /\ is on the supposition the damage was closer to +7/8.

Eh, i think the Phantom is fine as it is.
l2 with a slight "warning" before it attacks makes Phantom a more difficult character but more rewarding. An option such as l2 spam and HP lets Phantom get up as close as possible and l2, making the enemy very vulnerable to be hit.

l3 i feel has no use whatsoever imo, with its (1x1?) location, it seems very easy to escape. Increasing it may be imba, 2x2. You could cut the time it hooks though. Personally i feel this is an obsolete spell that should be replaced with something more...useful?!

Hook has a 2x2 location as the "hook", but a 4x4 location as the "pull"

I've landed my L2 on a Mutant about 1/2-2/3rds of the time against him in a good game... and I was able to kill off the mutant on its last life ^.^
I've never had any troubles with L2. It does have a low efficiency, but is effective if hit.

When are you gonna use flashes terrain? I'm tired of having to cannon up bot so I don't have to worry about nightly attempts to cap it