What issues? wtf are you talking about?


Or let them both make it and let the slightly retarded pubbers or tourney-nuts choose which one is better.


TS isn't balanced for 1v1?

I vote to balancing some characters like summoner and medic. Summoner should actually have useful spells instead of mana whoring and L1 the whole game. Either reduce the power of it's lings, or change it to another spell level. Medic is the same but instead of it's L1 the problem is with it's L4. Make the first 3 spells better (maybe it's L2 doesn't need to be changed) and reduce the power of it's L4. That way in every game with a medic, it's not a useless hero until mid game where it's usually a fast victory. End game is hopeless since a 450 mana medic constantly full healing over and over is a problem. Also archer needs to be reworked, it's L2 is hopeless and should be replaced, or maybe put it's L3 down a level and give it guardians for it's L3 while weakening the companions to fit a L2 spell. This can also benefit upping archer attack early game since it's only a spell level away. Most people don't bother with upping spell level since it's 6 civs just to reach companions which uses split upgrades anyway.

Summoner without his l1 would suck. But yeah, get rid of adrenal glands for him and make the other spells bettar.

Very much agree, I've said the exact same things in the past.

Have fun playing your plain 1.4. LOL
But seriously, have you noticed that you're the only one complaining about this?



(from before the change)


Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Jan 18 2009, 6:51 am by Mini Moose 2707.

AAAAAnywayzzzzz, here is a list in order of who should be in charge of assiming. I often get in arguments over who should be wasting their precious starting civ on a probe.

In order of responsibility:
Mech/Spec Ops
Assualt
archer
Warrior
Volt
DM
Medic
LM
Mutant
assassin
summoner

So if you're the highest unit on this list shut up and assim! Making anyone else do it puts us at bigger disadvantage. nothing is sadder when you are a summoner and you have to assim because of stubborn teammates.

I don't agree at all, it really depends on the game. Summoner after he gets 5/6 armor and a few attack upgrades doesn't need minerals for a WHILE, in most cases. At that point he'd be the one to assim. I've never been a player to get them right off the start, doesn't seem worth it at all to me, especially now.

One complaint is that I think assims are underpowered now. It takes a pretty long game for any except cannon-protected ones to pay off. Before it was kind of a gamble to get them outside of bases, now it's pointless. I did think they were too fast in the old version, but at least in 3v3's now they are too slow; somewhere in the middle would be nice.

Also, one semi-bug complaint: when trying to build cannons with a probe you really have to build them close to a pylon, you can't place them at the extent of the pylon circle because it returns to P7/P8 immediately. Give it a few seconds of wait before returning and it should be fine. This bug made it really impossible for me to fend off a L4 assault during night, I needed to place 4 different pylons to defend the temple and couldn't even come close to doing it in time for #2.

Hi.. My name is Number Two... D'you call down the thunder?

so.. It seems like moose wants to break off and do his own stuff... As changes go.. I've been implementing the changes that I feel is good, and neglecting the ones that are bad (obviously)..

1. Tino's idea of making diff % of HP spawns is a bad idea. Exp is done through Killscore. If the spawns are the same.. then the exp will never progress.. Right now it is timed well and I really don't want to change all the Leveling up settings and spawn settings to accomadate new heroes.. Aint twelve to sixteen enough? :'( (oops.. did I just say.. sixteen? )

2. Archer's L2 got better. 2 drones per spell... weaker sunkens/spore tho... with err.. 24? +5 dmg.. i don't think it's a poor hero at all... Muta spamming + microing + sunkens is your best bet... while Companions gives you a chance to farm late game or just spawn a heck load of them to do tons of dmg... They don't feed at all, since they're late game. As for guardian spell..... ehh..... Maybe you're just too stuck on the name "archer"... I could rename it to Skeleton warrior and it'd be good lol!!!

3. There shouldn't be any problems with assiming.. since both teams can do so.. and cannons cost 60 in my upcoming ver....

4. Special Ops n Assault have both been changed dramatically.. ... As for the Bomber.. it's AoE location has been made much smaller, and paralyze for 1 second shorter (4 secs). While its L2 has been made bigger and paralyze longer (72 pulses)

5. 3 second delay for Assassin probably fares better.... I would needa play out the assassin a bit tho.. before implementing the delay. Who was it that suggested this again? I think it was Faz- who did it first .

6. Adrenal Glands.. eh.. since 2 lings with +1 upgrades didn't work.. that's probably the next best thing to do.... Yeah in 3v3 Summoner is fairly balanced.. but if one hero gets eliminated... you're literally screwed.. And anyways, L2 spawns two IT's per zling.. that's good incentive to use it... (and Moose found a way to use IT's )

7. Medic's L3 will probably do smth else in conjungtion to mana sharing..

8. Brand Spanking New, Exciting, Hardcore Heroes are Coming Your Way! Be Sure to Witness First Ever.. Heroes with Powers that you cannot Begin to Fathom!

9. Reminder to self not too balance everything too much... =o.. The game was simple and that's what made it fun.. with the delays and all.. bleah.. BUT.. i can make it seem natural .. ehh~ we'll c.. please provide feedback to tha delay in Escape... Also.. Mutant's L3 has a 3-4 second delay.. and Warrior's L2 has a post-spell effect so it can't trap ppl in for good.

10. zzzzzzzzzzzz

11. I didn't go on SEN yesterday and this morning.. and now I hadda read THREE pages of this... holy cow, Folks!!!.... <3

just a note if you remove the hive if they havent previously gone to or past lvl 3 in all upgrades say bye bye upgrades. so this is kinda out of the loop. its either disable or don't. heres an idea though once further things are balanced you might be able to kill the pool for the summoner and have the run spead already researched. that might work pretty well.

as for the bug i reported on the mech not having invincibility at heal. i played Mt and it did the same thing as in m2. although i never did test to see if the tank was invincible only goliath and vulture in version mt but i believe in m2 the tank was not invicible either although i never did remember to save that replay so have to work with what i have and test what u can to fix. if you need a replay in m2 i can get that eventually it will prolly be a while though. prolly should check all 3 in m2 and in mt check what u need. the replay is attached.


the only problem i see with this is to those who are newer this will really take some getting use to. i myself have a pretty hard time playing the assassain im not too good at guessing when people are going to do what. this 3 second delay makes me think how much ill be running to the base with this slow pos lol.

Attachments:

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 18 2009, 8:39 am by killer_sss.

I usually work with the following order:

Warrior
Spec Ops
Mech
Medic
Assault
Archer
DM
Volt
LM
Assassin
Mutant
Summoner

All that said, it's important to recognize that the list isn't hard and fast: if you've got a character that's countered by the enemy's, thus reducing your combat effectiveness, then you move up in the order. If you've randomed a character that you're not very good at, or are generally new to the game and therefore suck at fighting, then you move up. If you die once at the beginning and nobody else does, then it indicates that one of the first few factors probably applies, and you move up. If you die twice quickly, then you MUST assim, whatever you are, because obviously you're not fighting well AND you're probably going to be out soon and should leave your teammates with something to make up for your absence.

What?! Why?! How the hell does making mutant wait 4 seconds to recast his level 3 hurt him, or help anyone else at all? Don't just add unnecessary baggage. Compared with everything else in TS, you think a mutant casting his lv3 immediately 1 after the other is one of the problems that need fixing?

What you need to do is add a 1 second charge-up so that assasin has more of a chance at night now that it has its own 1 second warmup.

err .. I meant Pre-spell delay...
it has a ~3 second "charge-up" so it gives ppl warning before the lurkers come... <.<

Are you shitting me? EVERYONE that plays TS on battle.net is complaining about M2-3. Hardly any of them have a SEN account or even know this thread exists.

I really feel that M2 and M3 are just reactionary releases that aren't well thought out, i.e. people say I have such and such problem with the game and some guy is OP and then a fix is made without testing or thinking through. I don't feel that there are major balance issues (that have such a pressing need to be fixed) with 1.4MT, rather that people haven't worked out the intricacies of the systems.

The marine is rigged with +3. People like playing rigged characters. If you un-rig a character, those people complain. End of B.Net public. People bitch about any changes, whether they are warranted or not. It's the nature of people.

Most of these changes are not very significant. The only ones that are actually important in most games would be Marine un-rig, Psi storm cost, and obviously assimilator slowing, which I've said before should be made less. The others are all relatively obvious changes. If somebody doesn't understand one of them, I'd be happy to give the logic behind it.

Marine is now underpowered, it needs a better spell to replace the completely worthless SCV

Marine with HP+Damage spam is still viable, but agreed on how useless its spells are. They can be good in certain situations (L2-->Assault, L3-->Volt), but usually just suck.

Rigged? Late game marine really isn't that great as upgrades get expensive, and the lack of good pvp spells make it less and less useful as the game progresses.

When it used to do 80 damage per hit, nothing could get close enough to hit it and even with the stuns it wasn't easy to kill because of how much HP it has. On top of that, any newb can use it without difficulty, the micro is basic.

Leave it to Unholy, then, just like you said.



I'm pretty sure I've said that I plan on revamping Marine to compensate him for the change and that at the moment him not raping everything was given priority over waiting for a full revamp. Special Ops is next on my to-do list. People keep telling me I killed Marine and I really have no counter for that.



Yeah, I'm not too happy with the assimilators being ultraslow in 3v3. I think after building an Assimilator right away my single Assimilator finally spit out some cash halfway through the first night. Assimilators will produce a little bit faster again in 3v3 and 2v2 and hopefully reach some sort of a midpoint.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Jan 18 2009, 11:30 pm by Mini Moose 2707.