Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Mapmaking Assistance > Topic: Randomized Order
Randomized Order
Jan 20 2022, 11:40 pm
By: Prankenstein
Pages: < 1 2 3 4 >
 

Jan 23 2022, 1:07 am Prankenstein Post #21



Just want to give my appreciation to everyone who has contributed to my topic. You folks are true thinkers and gems to the community. Your efforts help keep this amazing game alive. So thank you and cheers!



None.

Jan 23 2022, 4:28 am DarkenedFantasies Post #22

Roy's Secret Service

Quote from Prankenstein
It's really odd though. For some reason, each player's location isn't being moved before their units are spawned. So sometimes when I start the map, everything works fine, and other times, you'll see the units are created at the bottom of the map where their location is initially. I attached my map if you're interested to see.
The source of the problem is the "Location Assigned" switch. Every player who randomizes on the first cycle sets the switch and prevents the other players from being assigned a spot, because "Initialize Spawning" trigger clears the "Round Start" switch prematurely.

To fix the issue:
- For Force 1, create a trigger 'If current player has 0 deaths of Psi Emitter; Set 1 DC death for current player' (choose the unit to modify "DC" deaths for). Have this trigger be at the top of the list.

- In every "Location # Assigned" trigger, replace 'Set Location Assigned' to 'Subtract 1 DC death for current player'.

- Change the condition of "Initialize Spawning" to 'Force 1 has exactly 0 DC deaths'.

The first trigger that adds 1 death basically counts every existing player, and by subtracting 1 when a location gets assigned, Initialize Spawning will then only run when it gets to 0 (aka all players have their location assigned).


Another issue to fix:
- Delete all but one instance of 'Create 3 Dragoons' in "Spawn Units For Each Player" and change the target player to 'Current Player'. This is to avoid running the trigger multiple times, and to avoid creating dragoons for vacant human player slots.




Jan 23 2022, 10:24 am Prankenstein Post #23



Quote from Prankenstein
It's really odd though. For some reason, each player's location isn't being moved before their units are spawned. So sometimes when I start the map, everything works fine, and other times, you'll see the units are created at the bottom of the map where their location is initially. I attached my map if you're interested to see.
The source of the problem is the "Location Assigned" switch. Every player who randomizes on the first cycle sets the switch and prevents the other players from being assigned a spot, because "Initialize Spawning" trigger clears the "Round Start" switch prematurely.

To fix the issue:
- For Force 1, create a trigger 'If current player has 0 deaths of Psi Emitter; Set 1 DC death for current player' (choose the unit to modify "DC" deaths for). Have this trigger be at the top of the list.

- In every "Location # Assigned" trigger, replace 'Set Location Assigned' to 'Subtract 1 DC death for current player'.

- Change the condition of "Initialize Spawning" to 'Force 1 has exactly 0 DC deaths'.

The first trigger that adds 1 death basically counts every existing player, and by subtracting 1 when a location gets assigned, Initialize Spawning will then only run when it gets to 0 (aka all players have their location assigned).


Another issue to fix:
- Delete all but one instance of 'Create 3 Dragoons' in "Spawn Units For Each Player" and change the target player to 'Current Player'. This is to avoid running the trigger multiple times, and to avoid creating dragoons for vacant human player slots.


Ty! Makes total sense. Implemented all your changes and voila, works perfectly.



None.

Jan 23 2022, 5:07 pm NudeRaider Post #24

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Prankenstein
I did also apply DarkenedFantasies's fix to it as well.
You shouldn't. It will cause a bug with this condition (blue)
Initialize actual unit placement
Players

  • Comp Player
  • Conditions

  • Custom Score at least 1 for Player Force //only run this trigger if players already randomized their stuff. Can be skipped if the comp player has a higher player number than the players.
  • DC "location number" = 0 for Player Force
  • Time to pick locations
  • Actions

  • Set DC "location number" to 1 for Player Force
  • Add 1 to Custom Score for Player Force


  • I already edited my triggers and fixed it by adding the green line.

    Quote from Prankenstein
    This is awesome! After working your triggers into my map, it worked perfectly right away!
    I'm glad it's working for you. :)




    Jan 23 2022, 7:37 pm Prankenstein Post #25



    Quote from NudeRaider
    Quote from Prankenstein
    I did also apply DarkenedFantasies's fix to it as well.
    You shouldn't. It will cause a bug with this condition (blue)
    Initialize actual unit placement
    Players

  • Comp Player
  • Conditions

  • Custom Score at least 1 for Player Force //only run this trigger if players already randomized their stuff. Can be skipped if the comp player has a higher player number than the players.
  • DC "location number" = 0 for Player Force
  • Time to pick locations
  • Actions

  • Set DC "location number" to 1 for Player Force
  • Add 1 to Custom Score for Player Force


  • I already edited my triggers and fixed it by adding the green line.

    Quote from Prankenstein
    This is awesome! After working your triggers into my map, it worked perfectly right away!
    I'm glad it's working for you. :)

    You're a prince. I've gone back and reread your posts and made sure my triggers match. Things seem to be working beautifully. One last question for the thread (hopefully):

    If I want to increase the "randomness" (due to ties favoring lower numbered players), is the green lines below all that need to be added?

    //-----------------------------------------------------------------//

    Trigger("Defenders"){
    Conditions:
    Switch("Round Start", Set);
    Deaths("Defenders", "Psi Emitter", Exactly, 0);

    Actions:
    Comment("Randomize Locations");
    Set Switch("Randomize Location 1", randomize);
    Set Switch("Randomize Location 2", randomize);
    Set Switch("Randomize Location 3", randomize);
    Set Switch("Randomize Location 4", randomize);
    Set Score("Current Player", Set To, 0, Razings);
    Preserve Trigger();
    }

    //-----------------------------------------------------------------//

    Trigger("Defenders"){
    Conditions:
    Switch("Round Start", Set);
    Deaths("Defenders", "Psi Emitter", Exactly, 0);
    Switch("Randomize Location 4", Set);

    Actions:
    Comment("Random Location Switch 4");
    Set Score("Current Player", Add, 8, Razings);
    Preserve Trigger();
    }


    //-----------------------------------------------------------------//



    None.

    Jan 24 2022, 6:08 am NudeRaider Post #26

    We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

    yup, that's it.

    And since you used Razings score, make sure the players can't kill buildings while the distribution system is running. It's only a few trigger loops, so the window is minimal, but potentially one could give themselves guaranteed spot 1. A killed building will give at least several hundred of Razings score.

    Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 24 2022, 6:52 am by NudeRaider.




    Jan 26 2022, 6:26 pm Prankenstein Post #27



    Now I'm having trouble with the recursion of all these triggers into the next round. Random troops successfully spawn for all the players in Round 2, but the locations remain the same (they're not reshuffled), and the enemy doesn't receive new troops. I assumed all I would need to do is reset the razings and all applicable death counts back to 0, but no go. Also had a hunch I wasn't preserving a trigger or two, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Map is attached if anyone would be so kind to have a look.

    Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 15 2022, 3:09 am by Prankenstein.



    None.

    Jan 26 2022, 8:08 pm GGmano Post #28

    Mr.Pete-Tong

    You should be able to locate the issue aswell if you have the shuffle to work in one round. Than you need check the steps and make sure the system is complete and that youre able to restart the system When you want too. In My experience its always a small overseen Error causing the system to stop



    A Legendary Map Maker, Player. Apparently im more than intresting to observe Irl

    Ill try do my best in making all youre watchers happy

    The maps I made are tweaked into perfection and maximum strategy added

    Jan 26 2022, 8:27 pm Prankenstein Post #29



    Quote from GGmano
    You should be able to locate the issue aswell if you have the shuffle to work in one round. Than you need check the steps and make sure the system is complete and that youre able to restart the system When you want too. In My experience its always a small overseen Error causing the system to stop

    Thanks for the tips. That's what I'm trying to accomplish, basically just reset all the variables back to their original state and let the triggers run again. You're right, it's probably one small thing I'm overlooking. Will continue looking.

    P.S. Aren't you the creator of Mini Game Party? That map is astounding! My hat's off to you.

    Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 26 2022, 8:32 pm by Prankenstein.



    None.

    Jan 26 2022, 8:54 pm Prankenstein Post #30



    Quote from GGmano
    You should be able to locate the issue aswell if you have the shuffle to work in one round. Than you need check the steps and make sure the system is complete and that youre able to restart the system When you want too. In My experience its always a small overseen Error causing the system to stop

    Fixed it! You were right, something small:

    For some reason, in the Classic Trigger Editor, when resetting the variables after the end of the round, instead of using the modifier "Set To", I was using "Exactly" (might be caused by copying an action). When looking at the plain text triggers I noticed the string "Invalid nummod" in 3 places.



    None.

    Jan 26 2022, 9:44 pm GGmano Post #31

    Mr.Pete-Tong

    Quote from Prankenstein
    Quote from GGmano
    You should be able to locate the issue aswell if you have the shuffle to work in one round. Than you need check the steps and make sure the system is complete and that youre able to restart the system When you want too. In My experience its always a small overseen Error causing the system to stop

    Thanks for the tips. That's what I'm trying to accomplish, basically just reset all the variables back to their original state and let the triggers run again. You're right, it's probably one small thing I'm overlooking. Will continue looking.

    P.S. Aren't you the creator of Mini Game Party? That map is astounding! My hat's off to you.

    good to hear you found the issue i know when making advanced random systems its easy to make an small mistake that you can overlook.

    Ive made several edits 10 years ago+ most of my edits are long gone.. the map i focused most on was DS. I loved playing DS so i wanted to improve it and fix the bugs issues known to ds.. 10 years ago i had a final ds map which where somewhat ok, many players loved it, it was surely an improvement over the dsq final by queen gambit which was the ds i played and loved most. 10 years ago i couldnt really make it much better well at least not at that time with my knowledge etc, and in 2012 scbw servers was so dead cause of sc2 i think not sure, so i left it and left scbw for like 7 years, played other games instead. 3 years ago i came back to find scbw improved with the remaster version from blizzard. graphics now way better and most important unit limits was increased which was very usefull for my ds.. So i started and took another turn when making the dsclassic2021 map which is very popular today. I made many new mechanics and made balance so good ater testing and testing. today theres been played several money tournaments on my dsclassic map.. Im mega proud of the succes it have had and how good it is.. i have the most bug free and best balanced and apm (speed) dependant ds map very suited for competetative play. My only real competant is the DSA, but that DS is only played on china server, i have to admit that DSA is also good, and im sure the map maker of DSA used alot of time on that DS map.

    Today i entered the Eud world half a year ago cause i want to make an rpg map which im working on just now.. i think that one will be really good too,, we will see..



    A Legendary Map Maker, Player. Apparently im more than intresting to observe Irl

    Ill try do my best in making all youre watchers happy

    The maps I made are tweaked into perfection and maximum strategy added

    Jan 26 2022, 10:31 pm Prankenstein Post #32



    Quote from GGmano
    Quote from Prankenstein
    Quote from GGmano
    You should be able to locate the issue aswell if you have the shuffle to work in one round. Than you need check the steps and make sure the system is complete and that youre able to restart the system When you want too. In My experience its always a small overseen Error causing the system to stop

    Thanks for the tips. That's what I'm trying to accomplish, basically just reset all the variables back to their original state and let the triggers run again. You're right, it's probably one small thing I'm overlooking. Will continue looking.

    P.S. Aren't you the creator of Mini Game Party? That map is astounding! My hat's off to you.

    good to hear you found the issue i know when making advanced random systems its easy to make an small mistake that you can overlook.

    Ive made several edits 10 years ago+ most of my edits are long gone.. the map i focused most on was DS. I loved playing DS so i wanted to improve it and fix the bugs issues known to ds.. 10 years ago i had a final ds map which where somewhat ok, many players loved it, it was surely an improvement over the dsq final by queen gambit which was the ds i played and loved most. 10 years ago i couldnt really make it much better well at least not at that time with my knowledge etc, and in 2012 scbw servers was so dead cause of sc2 i think not sure, so i left it and left scbw for like 7 years, played other games instead. 3 years ago i came back to find scbw improved with the remaster version from blizzard. graphics now way better and most important unit limits was increased which was very usefull for my ds.. So i started and took another turn when making the dsclassic2021 map which is very popular today. I made many new mechanics and made balance so good ater testing and testing. today theres been played several money tournaments on my dsclassic map.. Im mega proud of the succes it have had and how good it is.. i have the most bug free and best balanced and apm (speed) dependant ds map very suited for competetative play. My only real competant is the DSA, but that DS is only played on china server, i have to admit that DSA is also good, and im sure the map maker of DSA used alot of time on that DS map.

    Today i entered the Eud world half a year ago cause i want to make an rpg map which im working on just now.. i think that one will be really good too,, we will see..


    My mistake, when searching Google a few days ago about my problems, a staredit.net thread showed up with you in it, and now I do recall it was Desert Strike, not Mini Game Party. Desert Strike is an amazing map too, some of my friends are obsessed with it. It's one of the few maps that survived and is regularly played still. Great concept. I love RPGs (though I haven't played many starcraft based ones) I'll be be very curious to see what you come up with using the capabilities of EUDs. Good luck! Is there a development thread I could follow?



    None.

    Jan 26 2022, 10:47 pm GGmano Post #33

    Mr.Pete-Tong

    this is my dsclassic2021 map thread DSclassic2021

    this is my rpg map thread rpg map



    A Legendary Map Maker, Player. Apparently im more than intresting to observe Irl

    Ill try do my best in making all youre watchers happy

    The maps I made are tweaked into perfection and maximum strategy added

    Jan 27 2022, 3:37 am Prankenstein Post #34



    Quote from GGmano
    this is my dsclassic2021 map thread DSclassic2021

    this is my rpg map thread rpg map

    Bookmarked!



    None.

    Jan 27 2022, 4:46 pm NudeRaider Post #35

    We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

    Quote from Prankenstein
    Desert Strike is an amazing map too, some of my friends are obsessed with it. It's one of the few maps that survived and is regularly played still. Great concept.
    As the creator of the original Desert Strike: Thank you. :)
    It was supposed to be a quick fun map to play with my friends. First version was finished in a few days. But then it got so much traction that I had to polish it, of course, and other mappers created their own versions of it. My version had elements where you could send player controlled workers to the opponents base and could do all sorts of shenanigans there. But the general public disliked the micro element so my version died off eventually and people got mad at me for hosting the "wrong" version. :lol:




    Jan 27 2022, 6:14 pm GGmano Post #36

    Mr.Pete-Tong

    Quote from NudeRaider
    Quote from Prankenstein
    Desert Strike is an amazing map too, some of my friends are obsessed with it. It's one of the few maps that survived and is regularly played still. Great concept.
    As the creator of the original Desert Strike: Thank you. :)
    It was supposed to be a quick fun map to play with my friends. First version was finished in a few days. But then it got so much traction that I had to polish it, of course, and other mappers created their own versions of it. My version had elements where you could send player controlled workers to the opponents base and could do all sorts of shenanigans there. But the general public disliked the micro element so my version died off eventually and people got mad at me for hosting the "wrong" version. :lol:


    But tug of wars concept maps where already made but yeah nude raider was the first with the desert strike tug of wars concept. I have to say nude your concept was a Nice idea but the map had alot of bugs and the Micro part wasnt used because it wasnt good too do it was too easy to defend a Micro attack from enemy workers simply because players was only allowed to attack with 1 worker vs defenders allowed to use 3-9 workers but yea sometimes players was New or bad and than an attack could cause players to dislike youre ds many of youre mechanics was Nice i have to say aswell but the balance was neither fully perfect i think but 10 years ago i fell in love with youre tug of wars concept i played your ds alot nude has to 100% respect for that... you should give the 2021 ds map i made a try. The mechanics i added makes my ds version alot different, All other ds maps you dont Any Click think speed. And the balance output was more less with a Best build vs my ds beeing more counter based, you can do way more tech moves All in All you have a Way bigger amount of good choices you can do against your specific enemy build. In other Words old ds maps you make zealots than goon than archon reaver templar than air etc where in my map you can do Scouts vs zea ^scouts win- but goon win scout -zea win goon -archon Even up vs zea- reaver win zea- scout win reaver etc etc. But ofcourse as you said it took you like a week to make ds where ive used more than 2 years.

    Compareable numbers the desert strike you made NudeRaider uses 100 locations and has 500 triggers 700 strings. Where my ds uses All 256 locations and +3000 triggers and strings maxed too but thats only text.

    I have too say youre ds never been wrong too me nude and I have many ds friends Who 100% respect and like youre ds way more than many of the other ds versions

    Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Jan 27 2022, 8:59 pm by GGmano.



    A Legendary Map Maker, Player. Apparently im more than intresting to observe Irl

    Ill try do my best in making all youre watchers happy

    The maps I made are tweaked into perfection and maximum strategy added

    Jan 27 2022, 6:21 pm Prankenstein Post #37



    Quote from NudeRaider
    Quote from Prankenstein
    Desert Strike is an amazing map too, some of my friends are obsessed with it. It's one of the few maps that survived and is regularly played still. Great concept.
    As the creator of the original Desert Strike: Thank you. :)
    It was supposed to be a quick fun map to play with my friends. First version was finished in a few days. But then it got so much traction that I had to polish it, of course, and other mappers created their own versions of it. My version had elements where you could send player controlled workers to the opponents base and could do all sorts of shenanigans there. But the general public disliked the micro element so my version died off eventually and people got mad at me for hosting the "wrong" version. :lol:


    I assumed you were the inventor of at least one really popular map. That's awesome, didn't even know Desert Strike had multiple creators, and here two are in the same thread haha.



    None.

    Jan 27 2022, 8:47 pm GGmano Post #38

    Mr.Pete-Tong

    Nude raider is the inventor 100% i just took the GTA1 and made GTA5



    A Legendary Map Maker, Player. Apparently im more than intresting to observe Irl

    Ill try do my best in making all youre watchers happy

    The maps I made are tweaked into perfection and maximum strategy added

    Jan 28 2022, 2:37 pm NudeRaider Post #39

    We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

    Quote from GGmano
    But tug of wars concept maps where already made but yeah nude raider was the first with the desert strike tug of wars concept.
    Yeah before that I was working on / playing another tug-of-war map called Sand Castle Wars. Fun fact: Because of this, working title of DS was "Sand Castle light". :D There too, I added player controlled units. Both map's biggest problems were the weapon sprite limit. Only 100 shots could be in the air simultaneously which routinely kicked in during late game and ruined balance and created clogging. What would I have given to have the option to double that - which is possible since SC:R. :) It's the reason "booms" exist. Although I might've added them either way.


    Quote from GGmano
    I have to say nude your concept was a Nice idea but the map had alot of bugs and the Micro part wasnt used because it wasnt good too do it was too easy to defend a Micro attack from enemy workers simply because players was only allowed to attack with 1 worker vs defenders allowed to use 3-9 workers but yea sometimes players was New or bad and than an attack could cause players to dislike youre ds many of youre mechanics was Nice i have to say aswell but the balance was neither fully perfect i think but 10 years ago i fell in love with youre tug of wars concept i played your ds alot nude has to 100% respect for that...
    If the defender makes more workers just because you sent yours over, you've already dealt damage. They are not free. :) Also it was supposed to be an addon mechanic, not a game ender. Also you could use spawned units (e.g. vultures) to your advantage and even kill several workers that way.
    My idea of balance was that all units have their use, and all race's have always and answer, instead of all being equal in power, and I had achieved that. But yeah, balance never got perfect, mostly because I got frustrated with unit AI behaving badly and because my version was dying out, so I didn't care too much anymore and got it into a "good enough" state and just played it as is. I would've liked to add mine-able mineral patches in the middle and maybe defense on the lane, but never got around.


    Quote from GGmano
    you should give the 2021 ds map i made a try. The mechanics i added makes my ds version alot different, All other ds maps you dont Any Click think speed. And the balance output was more less with a Best build vs my ds beeing more counter based, you can do way more tech moves All in All you have a Way bigger amount of good choices you can do against your specific enemy build. In other Words old ds maps you make zealots than goon than archon reaver templar than air etc where in my map you can do Scouts vs zea ^scouts win- but goon win scout -zea win goon -archon Even up vs zea- reaver win zea- scout win reaver etc etc. But ofcourse as you said it took you like a week to make ds where ive used more than 2 years.
    I would, but queue times are so long that I mostly moved on.


    Quote from GGmano
    Compareable numbers the desert strike you made NudeRaider uses 100 locations and has 500 triggers 700 strings. Where my ds uses All 256 locations and +3000 triggers and strings maxed too but thats only text.
    I pride myself having created efficient systems that use very few locations and triggers. ;)


    Quote from GGmano
    I have too say youre ds never been wrong too me nude and I have many ds friends Who 100% respect and like youre ds way more than many of the other ds versions
    Thanks! And now I'm curious to see your version. :)



    Quote from Prankenstein
    I assumed you were the inventor of at least one really popular map. That's awesome, didn't even know Desert Strike had multiple creators, and here two are in the same thread haha.
    As far as I'm aware all the creators of popular DS variants are at home in this forum. The maps from
    Quote from Lanthanide
    Quote from Queen-Gambit
    at the very least as well. (This forum has no good way to reference members)




    Jan 28 2022, 5:39 pm GGmano Post #40

    Mr.Pete-Tong

    Quote from NudeRaider
    Yeah before that I was working on / playing another tug-of-war map called Sand Castle Wars. Fun fact: Because of this, working title of DS was "Sand Castle light". :D There too, I added player controlled units. Both map's biggest problems were the weapon sprite limit. Only 100 shots could be in the air simultaneously which routinely kicked in during late game and ruined balance and created clogging. What would I have given to have the option to double that - which is possible since SC:R. :) It's the reason "booms" exist. Although I might've added them either way.

    This i actually addressed by prolonging the timer 10 years ago i called the mechanic anti map max.. sometimes the limit would still be reached but it was more rarely.. other ds maps made by queen gambit and fixed by lanthanide also had canot create more units bug too which my anti map also adressed i did this 10 years ago, it wasnt perfect but today it fits perfect.. if you play lanthanides fixed ds or queen gambits ds, map max is still an issue causing map to bug even its hosted with double limit. because it dosent have this anti map max mechanic that my ds has. I have to say the ds map i ended up with 10 years ago was still issued aswell so yeah SC_R helps alot for my map aswell.

    Quote from NudeRaider
    If the defender makes more workers just because you sent yours over, you've already dealt damage. They are not free. :) Also it was supposed to be an addon mechanic, not a game ender. Also you could use spawned units (e.g. vultures) to your advantage and even kill several workers that way.
    My idea of balance was that all units have their use, and all race's have always and answer, instead of all being equal in power, and I had achieved that. But yeah, balance never got perfect, mostly because I got frustrated with unit AI behaving badly and because my version was dying out, so I didn't care too much anymore and got it into a "good enough" state and just played it as is. I would've liked to add mine-able mineral patches in the middle and maybe defense on the lane, but never got around.

    I truly understand why you added this mechanic to the game it adds some speed and gives players more strategy to use.. but in the games i played with friends we really fast learned to defend this really easy without using minerals on it and without use of defence buildings (if our enemys came to us with 1 worker and we bhought 1 worker so we had 2 workers and then killing enemy worker. so enemy used 2 workers 1 to build 1 to attack us- and now we could send 1 worker to harass enemy for free kinda. so the team or player attacking first would lose minerals) so good players learned fast that it was bad to use the worker to attack enemy base which was sad cause youre idea for it was good, but in the games it wasnt used. the players i played with wanted the choosing right units strategy more than using workers and defence so improved excaktly the income stratey part of the ds concept when developping my ds, at first i keept some part of the micro but it was kinda hard to balance the micro either defence would be too strong or else it would be waste of economy.. but hearing youre idea of the middle mineral patch is nice. That would make the micro part of youre ds alot more important,, i have added a mechanic abit like it with a middle bonus for teams when ai has units above middle (but its surely not same as using workers to get income) which gives players a reason to add units rather than doin eco too fast. when thinking about youre ds you could add several quest in the middle to give the gameplay more action. because when players didnt use the micro part youre added, than the gameplay seemed really slow(some players like relaxed minigames tho including me back then) but when moves gets lesser and speed dosent mean much than its easy to learn how to do best possible and games became alot alike which is (i think) an issue too all ds including my ds but my ds is alot more variated than all other ds maps(huge difference) beacuse i added all the strategy mechanics for the economy and balanced the units so good.

    Quote from NudeRaider
    I pride myself having created efficient systems that use very few locations and triggers. ;)
    xd I definately pride my self that too.. I actually started reducing the use of locations you made when i first started on making my ds aswell as reducing the triggers (i actually deleted 80% of all triggers and redid new triggers instead.. i recall i reduced locations used by at least 30%.. along the way when added more and more stuff i reached nearly max 2 years ago and each time i wanted to add new stuff i had to redo the system i did earlier.. so many location i now center on a unit an use for 100 things instead of having 100 locations for it.. i dont recall you using any location for several things xd. i can truly say if one wanted to add more to my ds he would have an insanely hard time not only because theres no locations left for him to use but also theres no dc vairables left for him to use if you wanna do variable triggers-- at least it will be hard for him to find the free varaibles (dc) to use i think i used up 90% for all human players and 95% for ai players. last time i wanted to use a dc it took me long time to check what dc would be free for me to use.. haha stupid me i didnt write down which ones ive used along the way but i didnt think i would max it out like that.

    Quote from NudeRaider
    Quote from GGmano
    I have too say youre ds never been wrong too me nude and I have many ds friends Who 100% respect and like youre ds way more than many of the other ds versions
    Thanks! And now I'm curious to see your version. :)

    Youre so very welcome you deserve more than alot of credit for youre creation i think. (just look at sc2 too even warcraft has a ds map today.. and thats not all.. theres even made a stand alone game with youre ds concept--- you drilled a gold mine in the gaming world can only say that)



    Quote from NudeRaider
    As far as I'm aware all the creators of popular DS variants are at home in this forum. The maps from
    Quote from Lanthanide
    Quote from Queen-Gambit
    at the very least as well. (This forum has no good way to reference members)

    Dont forget LOST_angel who made DSA This is the most played DS in china.. I only have little knowledge uppon it (i do like it its really good) it has some downsides too but theres a reason its the most played in china and its played with money too there, theres also a reason its not played on others servers at all ofcourse.. But lost angel is surely part of the DS creators here on SC:R hes here on the forum too



    A Legendary Map Maker, Player. Apparently im more than intresting to observe Irl

    Ill try do my best in making all youre watchers happy

    The maps I made are tweaked into perfection and maximum strategy added

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