Quote from Oh_Man

Quote from rockz

Quote from Oh_Man

So if we really boil the argument down to avoiding unnecessary pain, I simply go back to my first point. They are getting a far better deal with us then they are getting in the wild, in terms of pain minimization.

No they aren't. Their pain is most certainly increased, but they don't have to work as hard. They don't have to work to find food.

Why is their pain increased?

In the wild, farm animals do not have to deal with the same amount of pain associated with overpopulation and lack of movement. Every day in chicken farms, there are numerous chickens who just die due to the poor living conditions. There are certainly other causes for this behavior, but it is mostly the living conditions. They can't get around and move for much of their life, making them uncomfortable. As humans, we know that being uncomfortable for a very long time is or can lead to pain. Staying in bed when you are sick is painful, often times due to bedsores, but also due to muscle deterioration and cramps. Animals go through all sorts of treatments, such as some of those things put in the video, like horn removal, and branding. This is essentially torture, something that they would never receive in the wild. The wost they would get there is a disease which slowly and painfully causes them to die (which they also get in farms) or being ripped to shreds right before they die by some predator. There are also almost certainly fights that break out between wild animals which do not result in death, but these are self inflicted. By removing animals from their rightful place in the wild, we remove most of their free will, which PETA obviously values a lot for every living creature except plants, bacteria and fungi, among other organisms without a brain. Of course they will never go hungry, which is possibly a problem in the wild, but usually animals do a really good job of finding their own food. The cats left behind in chernobyl are doing exceptionally well, even after being abandoned by their owners.

It's hard for me to take this video seriously when the narrator is so blatantly biased. Not to mention that the last minute of the video was purely propaganda.

For every animal those vegans don't eat, I will eat three.

So I guess it would be humane to take all the starving children in war-ridden areas of Africa and throw them in small cages and beat them daily? They'll be protected from fighting, and they'll get free food. It's all a good deal, right?

Is there a way of telling whether meat comes from animal-welfare-conscious farms?

Quote from MillenniumArmy

For every animal those vegans don't eat, I will eat three.

Since they don't eat every single animal on the earth, you have to eat 3*all the animals on earth

Quote from Oh_Man

One could argue that they get a better deal this way. Protection from predators, free food, comfortable living (this one varies) in exchange for their freedom and a quick, painless (also may vary in some dodgy-ass places) death at a young-ish age. Versus constantly searching for food, comfortable living is only what nature provides, and constant threat of predators and more than likely a painful death at the hands of said predators. Though they do have their freedom! Something which, I suspect, they do not even appreciate.

So yes, I would tentatively argue that we give them a better deal.

So I guess it would be humane to take all the starving children in war-ridden areas of Africa and throw them in small cages and beat them daily? They'll be protected from fighting, and they'll get free food. It's all a good deal, right?

Quote from Dem0nS1ayer

Quote from Oh_Man

One could argue that they get a better deal this way. Protection from predators, free food, comfortable living (this one varies) in exchange for their freedom and a quick, painless (also may vary in some dodgy-ass places) death at a young-ish age. Versus constantly searching for food, comfortable living is only what nature provides, and constant threat of predators and more than likely a painful death at the hands of said predators. Though they do have their freedom! Something which, I suspect, they do not even appreciate.

So yes, I would tentatively argue that we give them a better deal.

So I guess it would be humane to take all the starving children in war-ridden areas of Africa and throw them in small cages and beat them daily? They'll be protected from fighting, and they'll get free food. It's all a good deal, right?

Chickens aren't people.

Quote from Oh_Man

Is there a way of telling whether meat comes from animal-welfare-conscious farms?

Some egg cartons say "cage free" on them.

Animal's can't protest.

We are superior to the chickens, and we prove that by eating them.

We are superior to the chickens, and we prove that by eating them.

If the time it took us to learn those thing was really that long, don't you think aliens would have come here and eaten us already?
Besides, it's pretty unlikely that aliens would have the proper digestive systems to eat us. They would be from another planet with different food sources.
So, until you come up with a way for people to eat and grow through photosynthesis, I will continue eating other living things.

Do you honestly believe we can go live in a fantasy land where humans and the animals live side by side happily ever after?

It's a mere child's argument IMHO.

If the time it took us to learn those thing was really that long, don't you think aliens would have come here and eaten us already?
Besides, it's pretty unlikely that aliens would have the proper digestive systems to eat us. They would be from another planet with different food sources.
So, until you come up with a way for people to eat and grow through photosynthesis, I will continue eating other living things.

Quote from EzTerix

Animal's can't protest.

If you try to catch a wild bird around your house I'm sure it would protest. I'm sure it would protest by first running away, and if you scare it it might start squaking or release a warning call to other nearby birds, and if you actually grab it I'm sure it would struggle, claw, and bite you.

Quote from CecilSunkure

Quote from EzTerix

Animal's can't protest.

If you try to catch a wild bird around your house I'm sure it would protest. I'm sure it would protest by first running away, and if you scare it it might start squaking or release a warning call to other nearby birds, and if you actually grab it I'm sure it would struggle, claw, and bite you.

non-violent protests, submitting petitions for equal rights among mistreated animals, forming unions