Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Custom Maps > Topic: Temple Siege 2
Temple Siege 2
Sep 21 2010, 12:59 am
By: UnholyUrine
Pages: < 1 17 18 19 20 2122 >
 

Aug 27 2011, 11:10 pm 7Owls Post #361



Hey everyone, I've been continuing w/ my version, but I'm getting sort of dry on spell ideas. I've completed special ops and warrior, and I'm working on mutant now. Here's what I've got so far:

http://imgur.com/a/3FmMK

The two new spells are a level 1 spell for a slow baneling transformation to explosion and a speed spell that spawns temporary zergling afterimages for an attack. I also modified hyper claw to not just target anyone that's close, but instead be a straight line behind the mutant. This should add some skill to the game, and area splash can still be achieved by turning the mutant around quickly. There is no night vision anymore.

So the skill path is:
Burrow -> Baneling -> Fury Swipe -> ?????
\_-> Speed -> Hyper Claw replacement (Tail Smash?) -> Ultralisk

I am looking for a level 3 spell to compete with the Ultralisk. Do you guys have any ideas?

After I finish mutant, I'm ready to make a public release, although I still need to make buttons, add lore, and pretty up the terrain some. Let me know on bnet if you want to get a feel for it.



None.

Aug 27 2011, 11:44 pm Jack Post #362

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Honestly it'd be better if you joined our team. We're not short on ideas, have much better systems in place or planned, and only lack a data editor to make the heroes. You'd get quite a bit of freedom with how the heroes are made, and we'd be doing the triggers and UI and terrain, meaning the final product will be really polished.

Also the mutant sounds pretty bad now :(



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Aug 27 2011, 11:52 pm 7Owls Post #363



Yea, UU asked me to join also, and I can help you guys with whatever you need w/ data or triggers. I am nearly finished though, so I'd like you all to try this and see how it feels. I've been focusing on gameplay more than looks right now, and I like everything I've done so far.

What type of systems are you talking about? With the 1.4 patch for transient research, I think upgrades can be done completely from the command card. Why do you need a UI other than the default?

Sorry to hear that this sounds bad. What specifically don't you like and what do you think would be better? I didn't think I changed much.



None.

Aug 28 2011, 12:44 am Jack Post #364

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Are you going to be doing more heroes or just spec ops, warrior, and mutant?

Systems like different game modes, ELO and rankings, the entire spell system, items, and spawn.
The game doesn't NEED a custom UI but it certainly adds a lot to the game if it does and makes it easier to play. Custom UI is fairly minor though.

As for your mutant, night vision was one of his main spells. Day time he was fairly weak but night was his element, and taking that away from him half destroys his whole concept. There's also too many spells to upgrade (6), and I don't see why he needs to research burrow. Baneling doesn't have much synergy (he can already mutate into ultra), and speed isn't much of a spell. Basically he doesn't sound as interesting to play.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Aug 28 2011, 12:51 am ShredderIV Post #365



I personally didnt like that you took the spells from the original TS and basically just put them into SC2. Like, still spawning the lings and the lurkers. Keeping the original concept is good, but using the outdated system of actually executing the spells is kinda weird.

So like, perhaps instead of having the lings come out of the ground, you just give the ling a short, large attack speed boost. And for the lurkers you make it an active spell that you have to aim that sends out a burst of spines or something.

It's just odd to use the whole "spawn this unit and it attacks" system in a powerful editor that can do so much more and make it so much cooler.



None.

Aug 28 2011, 1:12 am 7Owls Post #366



I have those three completely done (<23 upgrades for each, as well as associated effects), and I feel good about the gameplay between them. I'll add what I have for the others below.

Game modes aren't too difficult to create, but were you thinking different objectives? (Phantom, capture the flag, etc?) That's a nice idea.
I think ELO can be added later. Gameplay is more important in the beginning.
My item system isn't done yet, but I'm only allowing a hero to carry one item, and have that item be a consumable. From what I read in this thread, you guys were thinking about equipment, which I don't think would work well in this game.

Spell upgrades work a little differently in my version. Each hero has 7 spells, one basic, six advanced. The advanced spells are divided into two trees. A spell must be bought, upgraded, and upgraded again to get to the final form. This is to get players to choose what they want to concentrate on. The costs increase for spells higher up in the skill tree.
---
The Baneling morph is more like the light mage l1 than anything else. 2s of invincibility and slow movement with a splash explosion at the end. It's more a spell than a morph like ultra.

The speed spell is mostly about stacking with other spells. It's upgrade adds afterimages (temp name?) that spawn periodically and can get an attack off the target before they disappear. You can run circles around your target and do a little bit of damage, as well as a slight bit on anyone chasing you. It also deals with stim zealot charge (and chain charge with the afterimages) quite nicely. Charge normally guarantees a hit, but w/ this spell the ling can move across the map with zealot chasing behind.

The way I think ling should be played is hit and run, and I chose these spells to reflect that.
---


Well here's my progress otherwise:

partially completed archer, lm, summy, dm (turns people into sheep :D) and mech, but I need more spell ideas. I've also started on
a stalker hero that focuses on movement/positioning,
a reaper (assault replacement) with stuns, n
and a very fun ghost, almost done (snipe ability that does more damage the longer you target w/ matching targetting sights visible to target as well, slow emp missile, nuke, seeker missile w/ stun, and night vision as well as listening to enemy chat, needs one more spell idea).

I don't have ideas for volt/sin yet.



None.

Aug 28 2011, 1:23 am 7Owls Post #367



Quote from ShredderIV
I personally didnt like that you took the spells from the original TS and basically just put them into SC2. Like, still spawning the lings and the lurkers. Keeping the original concept is good, but using the outdated system of actually executing the spells is kinda weird.

I agree, it doesn't look as good in the majority of cases, so I try to avoid it. There are two problems though:
#1. Without a unit created, the player can't control the target.
#2. A created unit can interact with other units as a target.

Quote from ShredderIV
So like, perhaps instead of having the lings come out of the ground, you just give the ling a short, large attack speed boost.

That was how I had the original l2 replacement, but the problem is the ling has to be there while the attack is going on. Also I think this looks cooler, although I know I could replicated it w/ actors.


Quote from ShredderIV
And for the lurkers you make it an active spell that you have to aim that sends out a burst of spines or something.

This is also for gameplay reasons. There's some skill required in turning your ling correctly to get the precise targets you want (you can curve the spines by changing the direction of the ling to replicate the original lurker area effect), and also, it makes the ling approachable during movement stuns. He can't just use lurks for everything; he needs other spells to cover the front.



None.

Aug 28 2011, 2:06 am ShredderIV Post #368



Quote
I agree, it doesn't look as good in the majority of cases, so I try to avoid it. There are two problems though:
#1. Without a unit created, the player can't control the target.
#2. A created unit can interact with other units as a target.
im sure theres a way to target an ability without a unit being there... Its been done in a lot of other maps... Also not sure why you would want the spells to be targetable... unless they're a summon.
Quote
That was how I had the original l2 replacement, but the problem is the ling has to be there while the attack is going on. Also I think this looks cooler, although I know I could replicated it w/ actors.
it actually seems pretty straight forward. Put an affect of the ling for a period of time that gives it something like 2x or 3x attack speed. You dont have to replace the ling or anything. Or i jsut dont understad what you were trying to say.
Quote
This is also for gameplay reasons. There's some skill required in turning your ling correctly to get the precise targets you want (you can curve the spines by changing the direction of the ling to replicate the original lurker area effect), and also, it makes the ling approachable during movement stuns. He can't just use lurks for everything; he needs other spells to cover the front.
I understand this too, but it also almost puts luck into play a lot of the time. The lurkers dont follow how you tell them to attack, so they just kinda attack watever they want. It would be a lot more polished to actually be able to target the damage you want to do.

And as far as making him use other spells, if a spell requires that you make it harder to use so that you use other spells in addition, then the comcept is flawed, and people will just be frustrated when using it. There should never be spells that are one-trick ponies with a leg cut off.

That, and nce again, the spells dont necessarily have to follow in the exact way that they're done, think about it. The original mutant had the following abilities, basically:
1. a map vision, kind of scouting skill.
2. a multi-atatck spell that was difficult to land but paid off well, and raped buildings.
3. A farming and AOE ability that, when in the presence of a single unit could do large damage.
4. A powerful survival and damage spell, good against buildings.

So really, as long as the spells stay that way in concept, the mutant will more than likely feel like the mutant that we know and love. even if the spell effects are different. Although keeping things the same doesnt really make the map new. Sometimes giving heroes a new feel works well.

Alos, consider passive spells. Event though they may seem "boring" sometimes, but if they're done right them they can be awesome.



None.

Aug 28 2011, 4:23 am 7Owls Post #369



Quote from ShredderIV
im sure theres a way to target an ability without a unit being there... Its been done in a lot of other maps... Also not sure why you would want the spells to be targetable... unless they're a summon.
It's not difficult for me either way, I just think it just makes gameplay more clunky. I think you should be able to dart in, engage the spell, and then get out. Targetting is better for slower spells I think. However, without targetting, you get things like in sc1 when you tried to l2 a pylon. If you don't use a unit there, the lings get lured to the cannons instead of hitting them. That's what I was trying to avoid.

Quote from ShredderIV
it actually seems pretty straight forward. Put an affect of the ling for a period of time that gives it something like 2x or 3x attack speed. You dont have to replace the ling or anything. Or i jsut dont understad what you were trying to say.
Yes, again, none of this is difficult to do. Here's the use case: in sc1, you can send your ling to above a cannon, trigger the spell, and run. If the ling is required to remain there to do the damage, he has to take more hits to do so.

About the lurk spell, it's more to introduce some micro to the game. In general cases it will be the same (with an increased micro requirement from the player), but the stun case is just a peculiarity of the way I designed it.

I think what you said about the spell roles is a good idea. I don't want to give him night vision because I think that would be better on the ghost hero I made. But I think some sort of utility spell would be good. I will make the baneling spell a level 3 spell and figure out a better level 1 one.

As for the passives, I did try numerous different ones, but the ones I made didn't seem very fun. The most fun I made was a combo type passive, so every hit you did to the same target increased the damage the ling would do to that target.

Anyway, please post some spell ideas if you have any. Then I'll release the map and you can try yourselves.



None.

Aug 28 2011, 5:47 am DevliN Post #370

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

You should start a separate topic for your map. This topic should be about the TS2 map.



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Aug 28 2011, 7:14 pm UnholyUrine Post #371



Quote
Honestly it'd be better if you joined our team. We're not short on ideas, have much better systems in place or planned, and only lack a data editor to make the heroes.
Yes that is very true..
But there is no problem with you (7Owls) in exploring and creating your own version.

I think that it's fine for all of us, and it'd probably improve our production.

However, I also have to be honest and say that I don't think we will accept all your ideas/designs/gameplay mechanics. We already have a set of ideas that we're trying to shoot for, but we really lack the people to do it.
7Owls, I think it'll benefit all of us that, after you're finished with creating your own version of TS, you join us in making a TS 2 that'll blow the socks off every SC2 UMS players.

Quote
You should start a separate topic for your map. This topic should be about the TS2 map.
There is no need to do that. His work is a great contribution to our version of TS :)

EDIT: Oh yeah.. how does the Morphing effects work? Does the zling go into an egg and then into the baneling/Ultra?



None.

Aug 28 2011, 7:17 pm DevliN Post #372

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

Quote from UnholyUrine
Quote
You should start a separate topic for your map. This topic should be about the TS2 map.
There is no need to do that. His work is a great contribution :)
I disagree. If people start giving feedback to his map in this thread, that will be confusing as this is about the TS2 map. It would just be easier if he asked for feedback in a thread devoted to his map as his map is not TS2. Unless his request for spell ideas is for TS2 (which I know it isn't), that would then be off-topic. :/



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Aug 28 2011, 7:19 pm UnholyUrine Post #373



It is a version of TS2.

but it depends on 7Owls.
I agree that he should make his own thread if he doesn't want to join us in the end.



None.

Dec 13 2011, 4:02 am Ahli Post #374

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

Because everyone left this to die, I continued:
- Warpgate capturing and its animations (start, abort, capturing, captured).
- SpecialOps is now tinted in player color (in previewer too)
- heroes are now scaled properly per unit in previewer window (archon & goliath fit into the window now)
- added button to resize lobby window to read chat if necessary (hides the team stats by resizing lobby window) [hidden is default]
- moved warpgates & defenses in the bases around to make them more balanced
- modified the cliffs in south base (hell cliffs are buggy, how did you even create them? ;S ) (oh, just found on mapster search: shift+i)
- added colored names to team pick tooltips in hero selection screen
- made some terrain areas more balanced between the sides
- fixed holes in the map where cliff types changed
- added spawns to the capturable warpgates
- added geysirs and pylons and more cannons
- added teleport via right clicking&moving to warp prisms within own base. Teleport has sounds & animation @ both ends
- added assists (Kills gives 50 minerals for the team, money is split between everyone who dealt damage to the dead hero within his last 10 seconds). If it can't be split equally, the killer gets the most money, so there will be 100 minerals given, if the killer was a player. [money for team kills isn't possible]. Money gain is displayed with a text tag above the own hero only visible for each player.
- capturing warpgates turns power on in the buildings and transfers pylons and cannons to the north/south base


^ Hero selection screen

Album with more pictures




Dec 13 2011, 4:31 am payne Post #375

:payne:

:0_0:



None.

Dec 13 2011, 4:35 am ClansAreForGays Post #376



You're awesome Ahli.




Dec 13 2011, 5:58 am UnholyUrine Post #377



Ahli, master necromancer



None.

Dec 13 2011, 11:38 pm Ahli Post #378

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

I've added an elo system with some tweaks. I'm not sure how it would turn out as elo systems are designed for 1v1 and not randomTeam vs randomTeam. :devlin:




Dec 13 2011, 11:50 pm Jack Post #379

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

Quote from Ahli
I've added an elo system with some tweaks. I'm not sure how it would turn out as elo systems are designed for 1v1 and not randomTeam vs randomTeam. :devlin:
There are team based ELO systems. One takes average enemy team ELO and compares that with each player on your team; I'm sure there are some other ways to do it fairly.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Dec 14 2011, 4:45 pm Ahli Post #380

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

Quote from Jack
Quote from Ahli
I've added an elo system with some tweaks. I'm not sure how it would turn out as elo systems are designed for 1v1 and not randomTeam vs randomTeam. :devlin:
There are team based ELO systems. One takes average enemy team ELO and compares that with each player on your team; I'm sure there are some other ways to do it fairly.

I need Spells with description and effects and its special stuff like blocks targets from moving away for 3 seconds because 16 aldaris spawned with light mage's level 1.

I'm to lazy to datamine everything out of the super old temple siege version (1.3) that I have as reference.




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