Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Custom Maps > Topic: Temple Siege 2
Temple Siege 2
Sep 21 2010, 12:59 am
By: UnholyUrine
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Jan 26 2012, 6:06 pm Ahli Post #401

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

@ unholyurine
Can you extend the list here?
I've added most of these spells (7 missing atm).

You can have a look how far I am in the project thread.




Jan 26 2012, 9:47 pm UnholyUrine Post #402



A few notes:
- Stun means immobilize, but doesn't mean cannot attack or cast abilities.
- Progression from sc1 and sc2 complicates a lot of things.. I will describe them with *
- I'm assuming that almost all damaging spells that used units for damage (aka spawn units, then remove them) will be replaced by spell effects in sc2.
- This is all assuming that we're still using the same mana costs as sc1 (25 for 1st spell, 50 for 2nd spell, 80 for 3rd, and 120 for 4th).

* - Not sure what to do with units' innate abilities, such as plague, psionic storm, and consume... Right now, I am assuming that we're leaving them out.


Again, from what I think would be easiest to reproduce in SC2....

Warrior


Dark Mage


Special Ops


Okay, I've done a lot of thinking.. and I've come up with several spell ideas, but I'm not sure which hero between Spec Ops, Engineer, and Assault (If there're three) these spells should go to, so I'll just throw it out here for you to decide

1. Timely Reinforcements
- Call down 4-6 marines at target area of hero.

2. Mana Pod
- Call down a small building at target area that increases mana regeneration for any heroes/units with energy near it including enemy heroes. Self destructs in 15-20 seconds.

3. Aerial Assault (probably for assault's ultimate)
- Call down a dropship with below average air speed that can only be controlled when the hero is loaded into it (Otherwise, it will just set there, without giving vision, doing nothing).
the dropship will have one spell, and a separate energy from the hero. The spell will be Aerial Bomb.. bomb the area below it. Mana will not regenerate for the hero when he/she is in the dropship. The dropship energy will not regenerate when the hero is out of the dropship.

4. Defensive Turret
so.. yeah.. okay?

5. Myriads of Possible buildings that gives effects.. like slowing, turrets, i don't know...

6. Sniper Round/Penetration Round
- This is probably better reserved for the Phantom, altho the phantom's sniper shot can differ in effect from this one (maybe drain mana and stun while this is more pure damage)

Will continue editing

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 26 2012, 10:31 pm by UnholyUrine.



None.

Feb 5 2012, 1:35 am Ahli Post #403

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

I would make the fourth Warrior ability a damage reduction by %.

Also, atm I've implemented the stun as immibilizing and deactivating of the default attack. So the stunned can only cast spells.




Feb 8 2012, 7:03 pm UnholyUrine Post #404



A few notes:
- Stun means immobilize, but doesn't mean cannot attack or cast abilities.
- Progression from sc1 and sc2 complicates a lot of things.. I will describe them with *
- I'm assuming that almost all damaging spells that used units for damage (aka spawn units, then remove them) will be replaced by spell effects in sc2.
- This is all assuming that we're still using the same mana costs as sc1 (25 for 1st spell, 50 for 2nd spell, 80 for 3rd, and 120 for 4th).

* - Not sure what to do with units' innate abilities, such as plague, psionic storm, and consume... Right now, I am assuming that we're leaving them out.


In order to get your creative juices running... here's a hero that I've thought about after my short time with SC2 UMS.

Hunter




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Feb 12 2012, 9:31 pm luzz Post #405



Is it possible that i can help you guys? I tried to make my own version, but it uses the old way from sc1, I'm not the best with the editor, but I've found out how to do a few things while I was working on my crappy version. =)

Edit: With the hunter you could make it so that lunge increases his attack speed for a few seconds, so he can get off a few hits before retreating or continuing on, just a thought.

Also, with the Mutant, I thought his passive ability could be something like Hyperactive Mutagens where the longer he spends doing something the better he becomes at doing it. Like say hes been running for a while he would slowly increase his movement speed the longer he is running. There would be a cap, but I thought it would fit him well, seeing as how he's supposed to mutate/ adapt to circumstances.

I have looked at your hero selection screen and I think I can give you an upgrade. Programmer made a cool selection screen and I copied my design from him, I tweaked it a little but I should not be given credit for making it. Look at my ts map on sc2 to see it.

I really want to help you guys. I may not be as good as ahli, but I have more than enough time to pour into this at the moment. I also have some idea that you guys might like. I dOnt however like that you r adding a dota style spell system. I liked the linear spell system, and it made the mana costs of the next unlock able spells relevant. If you do make a dota spell system change the mana costs of each spell and make the ultimate only available after a certain level. I think that the linear spell system gave people something to work for and was a very cool and unique part of the original temple siege.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Feb 16 2012, 4:20 pm by luzz.



None.

Feb 16 2012, 11:34 pm Ahli Post #406

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

Quote from luzz
Is it possible that i can help you guys? I tried to make my own version, but it uses the old way from sc1, I'm not the best with the editor, but I've found out how to do a few things while I was working on my crappy version. =)

Edit: With the hunter you could make it so that lunge increases his attack speed for a few seconds, so he can get off a few hits before retreating or continuing on, just a thought.

Also, with the Mutant, I thought his passive ability could be something like Hyperactive Mutagens where the longer he spends doing something the better he becomes at doing it. Like say hes been running for a while he would slowly increase his movement speed the longer he is running. There would be a cap, but I thought it would fit him well, seeing as how he's supposed to mutate/ adapt to circumstances.

I have looked at your hero selection screen and I think I can give you an upgrade. Programmer made a cool selection screen and I copied my design from him, I tweaked it a little but I should not be given credit for making it. Look at my ts map on sc2 to see it.

I really want to help you guys. I may not be as good as ahli, but I have more than enough time to pour into this at the moment. I also have some idea that you guys might like. I dOnt however like that you r adding a dota style spell system. I liked the linear spell system, and it made the mana costs of the next unlock able spells relevant. If you do make a dota spell system change the mana costs of each spell and make the ultimate only available after a certain level. I think that the linear spell system gave people something to work for and was a very cool and unique part of the original temple siege.
Take everything said in this thread a long time ago with a grain of salt.
Atm, the spells will be unlocked one by one like in scbw.




Feb 17 2012, 6:14 pm UnholyUrine Post #407



Thanks for your ideas and enthusiasm

I actually thought of the exact same thing with the Hunter when we were still talking about passive abilities and what not.

@Ahli
If spells are still being unlocked one by one, are their mana still just as rigid?



None.

Feb 17 2012, 6:27 pm Ahli Post #408

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

Quote from UnholyUrine
Thanks for your ideas and enthusiasm

I actually thought of the exact same thing with the Hunter when we were still talking about passive abilities and what not.

@Ahli
If spells are still being unlocked one by one, are their mana still just as rigid?

yes, I still need to add the unlocking.




Feb 21 2012, 12:01 am luzz Post #409



I was thinking we could make the mana costs kinda like hero sanctuary. This way, all the ultimates don't have to have huge effects, they can cost a small amount of mana, and be spammable, or more micro-intensive. The mana costs would still probably be ascending from smallest to most, but it would be cool to have different ultimates that are spammable, long term recharge, and those in between.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 21 2012, 12:25 am by luzz.



None.

Feb 21 2012, 5:21 am ClansAreForGays Post #410



Ew, no.




Feb 21 2012, 1:44 pm luzz Post #411



K, it was just a thought. People seem to like to choose how to play their hero, and what abilities they use, just like all the other DotA style maps.



None.

Feb 21 2012, 3:35 pm ClansAreForGays Post #412



And what does that have to do with making spells spamable on the level of HS?




Feb 22 2012, 2:58 am UnholyUrine Post #413



The Rigidity of TS stem from the obvious limitations of SC1

Honestly, there's no reason why we should still keep it..
..Other than the fact that keeping it as close to the original as possible is a good idea since it's hard to even get a prototype worked out :C

Luzz, your points are good, I do think that some hero and hero ideas will benefit from having more flexible mana cost.
However, the fixed mana cost of TS1 also helped cement a lot of hero's ability and the general play style of TS1.
To this day, I am still not sure whether or not TS2 should go by a more fluid system or just keep the old one.

Either way, it is best right now to focus on what we already know works.




Moar Hero skeletons

Phantom


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 22 2012, 3:29 am by UnholyUrine.



None.

Feb 25 2012, 6:00 pm luzz Post #414



Ya I would like to stick with the 25, 50, 80 120 mana costs. It will remove some of the confusion of giving each ability different mana costs, but this system has its drawbacks, and limits the ability to have diverse ultimates and higher to lower effects depending on the mana cost.

Just saying that if we eventually add mana for different mana costs depending on the abilities it would be best to start out doing it and not go back and modify each ability after we already have the rigid structure set up.

The more I think about it though the more I'm leaning towards rigid mana costs. Adding different mana costs would make us have to add cool downs and change the effects, causing more balancing issues. I liked having the ability to spam my abilities with no cool down, so I'll scratch the idea of different mana costs, unless someone really wants it xD. Just stick with things that we know work, like you said unholy.

Phantom
I really liked this hero in the updated versions of ts.
- hallucinations: should they deal damage? I'm thinking like 25% of phantoms damage. Also, could we give them an ability like... Nightmare that fears the target for a short duration, or causes them to be slowed for a while. Also, what if we gave the phantom the ability to swap places with one of his hallucinations? This would give him a very phantom like appeal and the ability to actually be a phantom xD
- focus shot doesn't seem very phantom like, what about if we gave this ability to spec ops? And give the phantom some different damaging ability...
- I can make a skill shot.
- how about it increases the damage of all hallucinations in the area and makes the phantoms attacks have a slowing effect for some duration
Passive - how about each one of his attacks applies a behavior to the unit hit, after 3-5 buffs the unit he is attacking becomes feared for a second.

I can't think of a level 4 spell for spec ops for the life of me... Anyone have any ideas?

I came up with an ability for volt that I wanted to share with you guys and get your opinion:

The volt attaches himself to all the nearby enemy units. Units attached to him are slowed by 10% and after 5 seconds any units still attached to volt are stunned for 1-2 seconds. Also if a unit leaves a range of say 5 their attachment to volt is broken.

Any input on this ability?

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Mar 4 2012, 12:27 am by luzz.



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Mar 4 2012, 11:21 pm Ahli Post #415

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

Raising minion count with stat points...
Should it raise the enemy one or the own minion spawn count?
The own count would somehow make more sense. If you just ignore the xp for the moment, it would make sense to raise the soldier amount to win the war.

I could lower the minion's xp spawned with each level to reduce the feeding effect. Then the map control + siege + hero surround (if melee minion) effects could kick in.

I just want to drop the info that with the excellent help of luzz, the map comes pretty close to a playable state.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 4 2012, 11:26 pm by Ahli.




Mar 4 2012, 11:41 pm Jack Post #416

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

The problem isn't the feeding effect, the problem is that the moment a more powerful spawn pops you can have saved levels enough to double the quantity, thus overwhelming the other team.

I'd actually suggest removing the upgrading of spawn entirely. It's always been a problem to balance.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 4 2012, 11:47 pm by Jack.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Mar 5 2012, 1:32 pm luzz Post #417



the feed is necessary for upgrading the spawn or spawn number if the other team wants truly any chance of winning Then they will need the feed. I would kinda like to keep it just so we can separate ourselves from other dota style maps. We need to be unique, especially with blizz dota coming out so people enjoy what's different about our game, also, some people like to overwhelm others with massive armies, so if we keep it more people might have much more fun playing the game. I don't know if that makes any sense or not, it was kind of stream of thought xD

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 6 2012, 11:25 am by luzz.



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Mar 7 2012, 6:05 pm UnholyUrine Post #418



It's starting to become hard to read your suggestions :P
Maybe cause I'm old or really out of it, but try speaking less in Jargon.

Personally, I think Raising the Other Team's minion counts with your own stat point is ridiculous and counter-intuitive. If the game has come to use it then there's something broken about it. I somewhat agree with Jack about removing it entirely but Ahli's suggestion of lessening exp gained by opponents per spawn when you pump your own base's spawn may prove to be good. Initially, the point of it is to give players another area of strategy, i.e. lane pushing an pressuring. While that backfired most of the time, i think some tweaks (like Ahli's suggestion) will help it become viable.

Uniqueness isn't going to really be an issue as many players will already think that the game is not unique (i.e. DOTA/LoL/HoN/Sotis Rip off) the first time they try it (unfortunately, uncomfortable truth)



None.

Mar 8 2012, 3:42 am luzz Post #419



Ya.. The last post I made was stream of thought so I sorta jumped around, sorry about that.

What I was trying to say, was that when you upgrade the spawn number, the other team needs the feed, or they will be overwhelmed by the increased number that supplies the same amount of resources and exp. unlike you, I don't think upgrading the spawn number in ts1 backfired, it rarely did, and normally the team who upgraded their spawn and spawn number won from shear numbers and the enemies inability to kill them fast enough.

This was my experience with upgrading the spawn. My brother discovered how powerful it was and used it against meultiple times so either I was very noob, or the spawn was very powerful. This being said I don't get how upgrading the spawn normally backfired, of course if you upgrade the spawn number like 5 times then the other team will get fed, and te players should be smart enough to know that that is bad, but if you upgrade the spawn number AND the spawn level then the enemy will most likely get overwhelmed.

I hope this makes what I was trying to say clearer.

Ahli and I have almost made a testable version of the map, most of the mechanical gameplay things have been created, all that's left to do is make a few more heroes and we will be set and ready to go! :awesome:



None.

Mar 8 2012, 6:00 am UnholyUrine Post #420



Very exciting :awesome:

Here's what I think. In SC2, there should be a way to strengthen Spawns without making them feed. This can be done by upgrading their HP, their attacks, their numbers while decreasing the amt of exp they give, and etc.
The most intuitive way is to make their HP/attack increase-able.

But, increasing the amount of spawn may prove to give more interesting gameplay experiences. If a team pumps spawns, the other team can simply respond by pumping more spawn, or upgrade their heroes in a way to deal with the increased amount of spawn. It gives the other team a choice, or a way to strategize, which is what I want.
In the end, however, if this mechanic proves to be detrimental to the overall experience (i.e. people thinking it's too OP or UP, or is basically useless, or is too OP against certain heroes), we can remove it.




Hero Skeletons incoming!

Assault


Engineer


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 8 2012, 6:11 am by UnholyUrine.



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